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Old 02-19-2012, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,765 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Again, your claiming that some are being dishonest is contradicted by your very own words: if you have an asset that isn't feeding you, clothing you, or putthing [sic] a roof over your head, it would make perfect sense to sell it in the hopes that the money can lead to an opportunity that would. Correct, accept you insinuate that it would require immigrating to another country due to desperation, when in reality it does not. So, by your own words you contradict your moral posturing.
Immigrating to another country may be the best/only option for some people, not the best/only option available for everyone. Clearly, not all poor people become illegal immigrants. There's no contradiction.

 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,765 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
It's almost cute that you believe that Mexico could absorb millions of sick Americans and care for them without raising taxes.

Considering taxes were lowered in the US in the last decade despite rising medical costs, it's really not that crazy an idea.

And your answer seems to be that Americans should pay for whatever Mexicans demand. What other foreign nationals do you believe should Americans pay for? Or is it only Mexicans?

Misrepresenting my position is #2 in the list of ways to ignore a point.

It is not common sense to tell Mexico's poor that the solution to their poverty is to move to America.

I agree. My point is not that they should, but that it's not rocket science to understand why some do. And I don't think it would kill you to treat them like human beings in a very difficult situation. Simply screaming that it's "Not my problem!!!" doesn't fix the problem either. This is an issue with fault on both sides of the border, and it will take cooperation to fix it.

It's not fair to let Mexico's oligarchs off the hook for the way they govern their society. It's certainly not fair to demand that America's middle class pay more in taxes to subsidize them. It's disgusting to imply that anyone who disagrees with your idiotic stance and ill thought out self congratulatory posturing is a racist.

Not all, but racism permeates many facets of the immigration debate. To deny that is to deny all rational reality. And, again, I'm not suggesting that Mexico is blameless. Far from it. But I am also not willing to let the US off the hook for its terrible, unrealistic policy or the people like yourself whose entire solution is to ignore the base causes of illegal immigration.

You are not pro-human. You do not believe that American humans have the right to govern our society as we see fit without opposition from foreign invaders.
Sure I do, but that's a little funny considering that the US has quite a bit of involvement in Mexican affairs. This isn't an either/or.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,765 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Loved you last sentence, Eleanor. These advoctes for illegal aliens take the moral highground all the time about being pro-human and yet Americans are humans also and they don't give a damn about them and the negative impact that illegal immigration has on them.
You guys totally missed the boat on what I mean by "pro-human". Think more along the lines of humane.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,765 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The OP makes the argument that the reason illegals are here is that if they didn't come here illegally then they would have starved. The OP presents no evidence to support the claim. The reason the OP doesn't present evidence is because there is none. Assuming that there is a shred of truth to the claim. I pose a question. If they are so desperately poor how can they afford to pay a coyote thousands of dollars to smuggle them?
I think another question that would more accurately represent illegals can be asked.
Would you break into anothers home, make demands, and then insist that you deserved ownership of anothers property simply because they had more than you?
This is the position of the illegal....
Where are you guys getting this idea that illegals are all paying thousands of dollars to coyotes? I personally know someone who used a coyote, and the story is pretty sobering, but it was only about $150.

Second, your analogy is dramatic fiction.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:52 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Every one of them?...

Goddammit!...
Yes, they break everyone that I mentioned. Lying stealing, coveting thy neighbor. Can you possibly deny that?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:53 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
racism permeates many facets of the immigration debate. To deny that is to deny all rational reality. And, again, I'm not suggesting that Mexico is blameless. Far from it. But I am also not willing to let the US off the hook for its terrible, unrealistic policy or the people like yourself whose entire solution is to ignore the base causes of illegal immigration.
Racism? Terrible, Unrealistic policies? Are you also arguing about the policies of other nations being unrealistic? Its harder to migrate to Canada and Mexico then to the USA, or even some countries in LA, Africa, Europe, etc. What exactly are the base causes of illegal immigration? Here is a decent posting as to the many causes of illegal immigration. The Causes of Illegal Immigration—Part II « The Reasoned Society
 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
Again no one here can read...

"societal driven slavery"

De facto not de jure.
Au contraire. I understood exactly what you wrote. But, it was nonsense. There is no "societal driven slavery" in Mexico, de facto or otherwise. Only a government facilitated illegal invasion of the USA by those deemed expendable.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Indiana
2,047 posts, read 1,300,622 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I see, so as an analogy you woudn't blame the guy driving the get-a-way car only the bank robber? There are three equally guilty parties in this mess and that is our government, the greedy employers AND the illegal aliens themselves. Just because you leave your door unlocked doesn't give you the right to come and steal the homeowner's stuff. Why do you treat these illegals like they are children that don't know right from wrong?

The first Europeans that came here did not do so illegally so you can stop that argument in its tracks right now!
OK there were no laws to be broken, that's a technicality!!! when the first Europeans came here. what drove them Europeans out of their homes to come here! is the same thing that is driving the illegal aliens today to come here! I say, if it is very very very obvious that people are coming in and robing their homes and Americans are stupid enough to still leave their doors open. then they just deserve to be rob blind!!
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Indiana
2,047 posts, read 1,300,622 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Where are you guys getting this idea that illegals are all paying thousands of dollars to coyotes? I personally know someone who used a coyote, and the story is pretty sobering, but it was only about $150.

Second, your analogy is dramatic fiction.
its about $3000 as of a few yrs ago!!!
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:04 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Racism? Terrible, Unrealistic policies? Are you also arguing about the policies of other nations being unrealistic? Its harder to migrate to Canada and Mexico then to the USA, or even some countries in LA, Africa, Europe, etc. What exactly are the base causes of illegal immigration? Here is a decent posting as to the many causes of illegal immigration. The Causes of Illegal Immigration—Part II « The Reasoned Society
Yeah, you'll never hear the advocates of illegal aliens complain about all those other countries that have harsher immigration laws than we do. I wonder why that is? In fact we allow in more legal immigrants per year than any other country and yet they till whine.
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