U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:04 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Immigrating to another country may be the best/only option for some people, not the best/only option available for everyone. Clearly, not all poor people become illegal immigrants. There's no contradiction.
Then how can you sit there and type that those that say they would not violate anothers immigration laws are dishonest and lying?

 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:08 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by gysmo View Post
OK there were no laws to be broken, that's a technicality!!! when the first Europeans came here. what drove them Europeans out of their homes to come here! is the same thing that is driving the illegal aliens today to come here! I say it is very very very obvious that people are coming in and robing their homes. if Americans stupid enough to still leave their doors open. then they just deserve to be rob blind!!
People deserve to be robbed blind? Wow, so you advocate for stealing what is not yours. What ever happened to trust, honesty, values? For many years the doors have been shut (maybe we need to arm the doors and windows with traps), but that hasn't stopped them from breaking the door down or breaking out the windows to take what doesn't belong to them.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:09 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,155,041 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by gysmo View Post
OK there were no laws to be broken, that's a technicality!!! when the first Europeans came here. what drove them Europeans out of their homes to come here! is the same thing that is driving the illegal aliens today to come here! I say it is very very very obvious that people are coming in and robing their homes. if Americans stupid enough to still leave their doors open. then they just deserve to be rob blind!!
Many of them left Europe because of tyrannical governments and religious persecution. It doesn't matter why they left anyway there is no comparison to coming here illegally today and no justification for it either.

Boy, what a set of morals you have! So if your neighbor left his door unlocked you would feel justified in robbing him? It isn't Americans per se that are leaving our borders open it is our government. Most regular Americans don't want their homeland invaded. So please don't group us in with the corrupt policitians who don't give a damn and their corporate masters who want the cheap labor.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,890,891 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Where are you guys getting this idea that illegals are all paying thousands of dollars to coyotes? I personally know someone who used a coyote, and the story is pretty sobering, but it was only about $150.

Second, your analogy is dramatic fiction.
No the dramatic fiction is the OP's attempt to make all illegals into starving creatures who had no other options. My analogy at least represents a measure of reality.
Illegals come here without permission.= breaking into someone elses home
Illegals lie, commit fraud , commit tax evasion and yet demand that they be granted rights and priviledges not granted to legal immigrants.
Last they demand that we grant their children the same rights and benefits that we don't grant to the children of legal immigrants.
My analogy is less fiction than the OP's or many pro-illegals claims that Illegals had no options and that they would have starved to death unless they break ourr laws.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Where are you guys getting this idea that illegals are all paying thousands of dollars to coyotes? I personally know someone who used a coyote, and the story is pretty sobering, but it was only about $150.

Second, your analogy is dramatic fiction.
You MUST be kidding.

Quote:
The United Nations estimates that smuggling migrants across Mexico’s border with the U.S. alone is a $6.6 billion business annually, compared to an estimated the $10 billion to $29 billion in illegal drug running.
Smuggling of migrants into the US a $6.6 billion dollar business - Views From Baja Arizona

Quote:
The machines in place for less than two years at two state police checkpoints have led to the two largest hauls of migrants, who pay anywhere from $7,000 to $30,000 for passage, depending where they start.
Truckloads of migrants a billion-dollar business - World news - Americas - msnbc.com

Quote:
Juan Perez, 24, and his girlfriend arrived in Matamoros a couple of days ago from the southern Mexican state of Tabasco. They've run out of money and now find themselves stuck at the border.

"There's a lot of criminals at the river. You have to pay to cross the river," Perez says. "And on the other side you have to be careful of the Border Patrol. And there's a lot of crime here in Matamoros right now."

He says the gangs want $100 per person just to let migrants swim across the river; it's $3,000 if you want to get delivered to Dallas. Perez can't even afford to jump into the water.
Quote:
Carlos paid a "coyote," or a smuggler, to get him from the Mexican border city of Reynosa to Houston.

"They charged us $500 upfront just to cross the border. Then if they got us to Houston, you have to pay another $2,500," he says.
Brutal Cartels Make Crossing U.S. Border Even Riskier : NPR
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:17 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,901 times
Reputation: 2345
Considering taxes were lowered in the US in the last decade despite rising medical costs, it's really not that crazy an idea.

Taxes are down on items like capital gains that are the province of the rich. They are not down for most middle class Americans. Medical costs are up enormously. In many places that stems largely from services that illegals use and don't pay for. My own premiums and copays have doubled.

Misrepresenting my position is #2 in the list of ways to ignore a point.

I understand your point. In fact I probably understand it better than you do. You seem to have spent very little time in America or have very little understanding of America life. You seem to understand very little about the terrible costs many illegals impose on American communities.

I agree. My point is not that they should, but that it's not rocket science to understand why some do. And I don't think it would kill you to treat them like human beings in a very difficult situation. Simply screaming that it's "Not my problem!!!" doesn't fix the problem either. This is an issue with fault on both sides of the border, and it will take cooperation to fix it.

I am treating them like human beings. As human beings I expect them to obey American immigration laws. I certainly expect them not to attempt to skip the immigration lines and then call Americans nasty names when we ask them to stop. I expect them to make demands on their leaders not on the already overburdened and overworked American middle class.

You are treating them like children. The problem of Mexican poverty is Mexico's to solve not mine. I am disgusted that you and many other people who live in Mexico seem to believe otherwise. Expecting others to solve your problems and then whining when they say no is hardly adult behavior.

Not all, but racism permeates many facets of the immigration debate. To deny that is to deny all rational reality. And, again, I'm not suggesting that Mexico is blameless. Far from it. But I am also not willing to let the US off the hook for its terrible, unrealistic policy or the people like yourself whose entire solution is to ignore the base causes of illegal immigration.

I agree racism does color this debate. To deny that most hispanic leaders and many hispanics support illegals and do so for racial reasons is indeed to deny reality. Vicente Fox would not speak up for illegals if most were not Mexican nationals. This idiotic pretense that it is only the nasty white racist who oppose illegals and only oppose them because they are brown is both ignorant of reality and greatly insulting to those who really have been on the receiving end of racism.

Calling America's ridiculously generous immigration policies terrible is absurd. We've literally let in thousands and thousands and thousands of Mexican nationals. We're hardly under legal (let alone moral for crissakes) obligation to let in EVERY Mexican high school dropout who does not speak English and has six kids come here. Particularly in the midddle of a harsh recession when many of our own citizens are suffering.

You imply that Americans are nasty rotten racists while steadfastly refusing to say much at all about the creeps who run Mexico. Ultimately they and they alone are the base cause of Mexico's poverty. Mexicans should hold them responsible and not Americans.

Sure I do, but that's a little funny considering that the US has quite a bit of involvement in Mexican affairs. This isn't an either/or.

And Mexico has a tremendous involvement in American affairs. Mexico is currently attempting to ship it's least able citizenry here and demand Americans support them. They lobby congress and the president to ignore the needs and desire of the American people so they can continue their oligarchy.

Why do you think our democracy should take into account the needs of poor Mexicans? Or that Mexican nationals should be free to ignore our immigration laws and thumb their nose at our laws just because they are Mexican and not rich?

This is pretty much an either/or. Either Mexican nationals stop shipping their poorest citizens here against our wishes or they will face deportation. Americans are not Mexico's safety net. I am sorry so many Mexicans seem incapable of grasping this fact.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:30 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,293,735 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by gysmo View Post
I don't blame the people from coming here illegally. I blame the U.S. government for not enforcing the laws on the books for not securing the boarders, for allowing sanctuary cities to not enforce the U.S. laws. it is too easy to come to America the odds are very good and that is what brings people here. enforce the laws and you will see a dramatic decrease of people trying to come here!! the first Americans did the same thing they left their country to come to look for a better place. black people didn't leave the U.S. because they knew that any Mexican would have traded places with them to be here in America!! all i saying don't blame people. turn your anger at the U.S. government for allowing these thing to go on!! vote for people that have the cajones to enforce the laws!! there is the blame!!
The first Americans were different tribes of American Indians who fought each other long before whites came here. Most Indians didn't live in one place; they didn't have the idea of owning land, they were squatters. So your comparing illegal aliens coming here today doesn't mean a thing since we aren't squatters; we have rules about theft, trespassing, and so on and expect outsiders to follow OUR rules.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:31 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,293,735 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
Again no one here can read...

"societal driven slavery"

De facto not de jure.
The Mexicans need to fight for what's right at home.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Indiana
2,047 posts, read 1,301,095 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Many of them left Europe because of tyrannical governments and religious persecution. It doesn't matter why they left anyway there is no comparison to coming here illegally today and no justification for it either.

Boy, what a set of morals you have! So if your neighbor left his door unlocked you would feel justified in robbing him? It isn't Americans per se that are leaving our borders open it is our government. Most regular Americans don't want their homeland invaded. So please don't group us in with the corrupt policitians who don't give a damn and their corporate masters who want the cheap labor.
I don't know about you but if i hear there has been break ins around my neighborhood I would make sure to lock all my door every night. because people who break in homes, don't really care about morals.I am not justifying what these people are doing. just saying they don't care what you think. you vote this politicians into office right! and the winner usually get the majority of the votes right! then yes you are responsible!! are you out there talking to people, to friends convincing them that they should vote for candidates that are for securing the boarders enforcing the immigration law! are you donating your time to a candidate who you support. or are you just whining in your mother's basement. do something about it!!
 
Old 02-19-2012, 07:34 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,293,735 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by gysmo View Post
I don't know about you but if i hear there has been break ins around my neighborhood I would make sure to lock all my door every night. because people who break in homes, don't really care about morals.I am not justifying what these people are doing. just saying they don't care what you think. you vote this politicians into office right! and the winner usually get the majority of the votes right! then yes you are responsible!! are you out there talking to people, to friends convincing them that they should vote for candidates that are for securing the boarders enforcing the immigration law! are you donating your time to a candidate who you support. or are you just whining in your mother's basement. do something about it!!
Just be careful what you ask for: Americans may go overboard against anyone who might be an illegal alien and I'll let you fill in the blanks. It won't be pretty, I assure you. Just look at what happened to Black Americans 100 years ago to catch what I'm saying.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top