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Old 02-20-2012, 11:43 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I agree that the sponsor should be responsible for providing health insurance and the immigrants daily needs. They should also be responsible legally for the person they sponsor's actions. As far as english speaking ability. How do we judge ones ability to learn? Are we saying that the immigrant be able to pass a test to determine their ability to speak english? If so I can agree with this the exception being sponsoring an infant or young child or an elderly parent.
I suppose with a sponsor who will support the immigrant, it doesn't matter as much if they ever speak English but as far as those immigrants coming in to work, they need to have enough English that they can assimilate and be self-reliant.

There are so many people who would like to come here and who have a real desire to become part of the American people, and who have enough intellectual curiousity to want to learn English, it's just strange to me that those who never want to and cannot adapt are being given preference over the others.

Immigration shouldn't be just about the love of American money.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,923,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I suppose with a sponsor who will support the immigrant, it doesn't matter as much if they ever speak English but as far as those immigrants coming in to work, they need to have enough English that they can assimilate and be self-reliant.

There are so many people who would like to come here and who have a real desire to become part of the American people, and who have enough intellectual curiousity to want to learn English, it's just strange to me that those who never want to and cannot adapt are being given preference over the others.

Immigration shouldn't be just about the love of American money.
Correct..... Our immigration laws should reflect whats in the best interests of the nation first.
If an applicant has a sponsor that is fine but they should still meet a minimal requirement.
lets look at facts.
Who would have the greatest chance of not becoming a burden on the tax payer?
A college educated English speaking applicant or An illiterate un-educated former pig farmer?
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:05 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Whom are YOu identifying as "pro illegal"?...

What do YOu mean with such terminology?...

Also define YOur term of "amnesty"...
You know damned well what the term "pro-illegal" means. It means anyone who defends/advocates for illegal aliens in this country and a desire to allow them to remain here aka "amnesty".
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Whom are YOu identifying as "pro illegal"?...

What do YOu mean with such terminology?...


Also define YOur term of "amnesty"...
Why are you trying to deny being pro-illegal? Are you ashamed? I freely admit to being anti-illegal. There are no ifs, ands, or buts. What terminology? Or, is this another attempt to get "pro-illegal" banned from this forum? Sorry, but pro-illegal is not a derogatory term. It aptly describes illegal alien supporters, just as anti-illegal describes their opponents. It's just that simple. A tree is known by its fruit. And, people are judged by their behavior.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:00 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,391,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I agree that the sponsor should be responsible for providing health insurance and the immigrants daily needs. They should also be responsible legally for the person they sponsor's actions. As far as english speaking ability. How do we judge ones ability to learn? Are we saying that the immigrant be able to pass a test to determine their ability to speak english? If so I can agree with this the exception being sponsoring an infant or young child or an elderly parent.
There's a widely used test to determine one's ability to speak, read and write English as a second language. It's known as TOEFL or Test of English as a Foreign Language. Unless the person is under a certain age they should be required to get a passing score on that test if they want to come here. I would be far more respectful of the Mexican national's arguments on this issue if Mexico's educational system mandated passage of the test as a condition of graduation from elementary school. It doesn't. Instead we get arrogant hispanic officials with the sheer nerve to tell Americans that the problem is not that their lazy citizens who want to come here without permission aren't fluent in English but that Americans have the nerve not spend their free time learning Spanish to greet them.

It's one of the actions they could take to help defuse tensions. Instead they get nasty and dare whine that Americans aren't bilingual. And by bilingual they don't mean Americans don't speak Russian or German or French as well as English. They mean Americans don't speak their language. Because even though the rest of the world is learning English, to ask that of illegals would be cruel. Or racist. Or some such nonsense . . .
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
There's a widely used test to determine one's ability to speak, read and write English as a second language. It's known as TOEFL or Test of English as a Foreign Language. Unless the person is under a certain age they should be required to get a passing score on that test if they want to come here. I would be far more respectful of the Mexican national's arguments on this issue if Mexico's educational system mandated passage of the test as a condition of graduation from elementary school. It doesn't. Instead we get arrogant hispanic officials with the sheer nerve to tell Americans that the problem is not that their lazy citizens who want to come here without permission aren't fluent in English but that Americans have the nerve not spend their free time learning Spanish to greet them.

It's one of the actions they could take to help defuse tensions. Instead they get nasty and dare whine that Americans aren't bilingual. And by bilingual they don't mean Americans don't speak Russian or German or French as well as English. They mean Americans don't speak their language. Because even though the rest of the world is learning English, to ask that of illegals would be cruel. Or racist. Or some such nonsense . . .
Sheer arrogance. Mexico exports millions of its citizens to the U.S. illegally, knowing they don't speak a lick of English. Then, we're considered racist and xenophobic because we dare to not learn THEIR language.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,022,544 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
...I would be far more respectful of the Mexican national's arguments on this issue if Mexico's educational system mandated passage of the test as a condition of graduation from elementary school. It doesn't...
Actually it is at Middle School level in Mexico where English, typically two years of classes, is required. My eldest daughter mainstreamed here immediately, no ESL classes at all. Setting it as a requirement of "graduation" of Elementary School level is impractical (why should they accept our demands for their students?).

But I knew YOu were just throwing an unreasonable request out there, when I saw YOu use "respectful" and "Mexican national" in the same sentence...
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:03 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Actually it is at Middle School level in Mexico where English, typically two years of classes, is required. My eldest daughter mainstreamed here immediately, no ESL classes at all. Setting it as a requirement of "graduation" of Elementary School level is impractical (why should they accept our demands for their students?).

But I knew YOu were just throwing an unreasonable request out there, when I saw YOu use "respectful" and "Mexican national" in the same sentence...
Benicar's post wasn't about legal immigrants who learn English in Mexican schools and come here the right way. It is about the millions of uneducated, non-English speaking illegal aliens who don't.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,022,544 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Benicar's post wasn't about legal immigrants who learn English in Mexican schools and come here the right way. It is about the millions of uneducated, non-English speaking illegal aliens who don't.
In YOur haste to respond, did YOu see whom I was replying to?...
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:31 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
In YOur haste to respond, did YOu see whom I was replying to?...
Oh, sorry it was Eleanor. Nice dodge from the points of my post though.
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