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Old 02-27-2012, 02:16 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
Reputation: 8519

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So does this mean that Russia can annex Alaska, or that Canada can go after North and South Dakota? Land that is titled over to a country is not open for another to stake a claim on it.
The rules are different now. That's not really the way it worked back then.

The Spanish land claim (which turned to Mexico for a couple decades) over the American Southwest was ambitious at best, overreaching and untenable at worst. Part of the way it was done "back then" was you had to be able to hold on to what you claimed. A couple of mission posts obviously didn't cut it.

America can plant a flag on the moon and claim it as theirs, but if China gets there first and starts building space colonies, is America's claim legitimate?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum
Why does the criteria have to be lower for the United States? Isn't that just an extension of Manifest Destiny, to say we can go where we want? Why did we ever pay for the Louisiana Purchase if it was the same conditions there?
The Republic of Texas is what happens when you lack the ability to control land that you claim as yours.

The ultimate Mexican claim to the American southwest WAS ITSELF an extension of SPANISH manifest destiny --- that god himself, through the Pope, wanted Spain to have the lands of the western hemisphere, west of the line of demarcation.

 
Old 02-27-2012, 02:22 PM
 
4,126 posts, read 4,328,574 times
Reputation: 1610
I wonder if the early English and Spanish settlers demanded free housing and medical.
 
Old 02-27-2012, 02:26 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So does this mean that Russia can annex Alaska, or that Canada can go after North and South Dakota? Land that is titled over to a country is not open for another to stake a claim on it. YOu are basically saying that the American immigrants coming to Mexican Texas should not have had to observe their law and sovereign status, without any treaties being signed.

Why does the criteria have to be lower for the United States? Isn't that just an extension of Manifest Destiny, to say we can go where we want? Why did we ever pay for the Louisiana Purchase if it was the same conditions there?
Try re-reading what BlackShoe wrote and then determine if your comment is any relation. Russia sold Alaska to us. N. and S. Dakota were part of the Louisiana Purchase, the portions of those 2 states that were not covered by the purchase was later granted under the Treaties of Ghent and Peace from Britian.

Never did BlackShoe say that American Immigrants going to Mexican Texas did not need to observe their laws. You are arguing for the sake of arguing.
 
Old 02-27-2012, 02:57 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So does this mean that Russia can annex Alaska, or that Canada can go after North and South Dakota? Land that is titled over to a country is not open for another to stake a claim on it. YOu are basically saying that the American immigrants coming to Mexican Texas should not have had to observe their law and sovereign status, without any treaties being signed.

Why does the criteria have to be lower for the United States? Isn't that just an extension of Manifest Destiny, to say we can go where we want? Why did we ever pay for the Louisiana Purchase if it was the same conditions there?
Living in the past are we? I don't see any Americans trying to takeover Mexico today and I don't know of any regular Americans today claiming that they can go where they want without permission of a country's government.

Are you justifying illegal immigration into our country today because of the past? Oh I forgot, you don't answer questions.

Last edited by chicagonut; 02-27-2012 at 03:07 PM..
 
Old 02-27-2012, 03:42 PM
 
Location: New Hampshire
4,827 posts, read 4,646,310 times
Reputation: 3583
LOL at the OP...

So the Native Americans just appeared out of nowhere, didn't they?

All I can do is shake my head in disbelief. You really need to pick up a book.
 
Old 02-27-2012, 03:49 PM
 
499 posts, read 482,493 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
Illegal Immigrants. Ask the Native Americans. You are all hypocrites and are the descendants of illegal immigrants. Of course back then they where called Pioneers and Explorers but it's the same difference.
WOW! That is real nasty and I'm not an American! It was the Pioneers and Explorers that built America to be the great country that it is today. Where would the Native Americans be now if it wasn't for all the Europeans that built the country up? Probably still living in their tepees
 
Old 02-27-2012, 03:53 PM
 
499 posts, read 482,493 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Oh for god sakes.



Asking people to obey our immigration laws, learn our language and not use our social services is a perfectly rational action not some sort of offense against human rights. Every country (including most latino nations) makes those sort of demands on foreign nationals.

My relatives came here legally at the invitation of the American government. They were examined closely for contagious diseases knowing they would have been sent home no questions asked and no appeal possible. They were fleeing pograms which were periodic murderous lynchings against people who shared their religion. They learned English. They sure as hell did not expect Americans to learn Yiddish or provide them with $300 a month for food just because they gave birth on American soil.

They didn't march down the street waving Austro-Hungarian empire flags. They sure as hell didn't steal anyone's land or kill anyone. They didn't demand that Americans pay their medical bills or provide ESL teachers for their kids or subsidized housing for their elderly relatives.

You know what else they did? They celebrated the 4th of July. They showed pride in this country. They were happy and yes even grateful. They sure as hell did not go around screeching that Americans were horrible racists when the doors were shut in 1924 even though that literally condemned some of my relatives to the true death camps of the holocaust.

If you're going to talk about my relatives (and the relatives of most anti-illegals) at least be accurate.
I agree with you so much and as I have previously said I am not American. It was people like you and your forbears who made America the great country that it is today. I salute you and yours
 
Old 02-27-2012, 04:00 PM
 
499 posts, read 482,493 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1984 View Post
It is hypocritcal for a Mexican, who has Spanish ancestry, to use this argument, when your ancestors did they same exact thing at a grander scale (the majority of the Western Hemisphere).

Bottom line, in modern times there are laws and they should be obeyed. Compared to how Mexico treats illegal immigrants, the US is soft on the issue.
Well said. Try to be an illegal immigrant in Mexico and see what happens
 
Old 02-27-2012, 04:18 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by quenelle View Post
I agree with you so much and as I have previously said I am not American. It was people like you and your forbears who made America the great country that it is today. I salute you and yours
Well, the advocates for illegal aliens would say that the white man just slew all the natives and were all genocidal maniacs and that their descendants are here illegally in this country. They don't give a damn about anything good that became of this country. I am white and my ancestors were never a part of those conflicts of the past and yet I am demonized anyway just for being white and wanting our immigration laws respected and enforced today.
 
Old 02-27-2012, 04:43 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,467,286 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
When the early settlers came here they found the "native Americans" to be individual tribal people with no single govenment over all. Thererore, there were no "imigration laws" to violate, and they were not "illegal", unlike todays law breakers who enter the country illegally. They are illegal aliens (not "illegal imigrants", as an imigrant is one who has entered the country legally).

The premise of this thread is ridiculous, and this thread is only intended to incite hatred. It ought to be deleted.
According to whom?
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