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Old 02-28-2012, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It doesn't matter what you want to claim what their background is. They also have a background of being part Spanish "invader" as you call it. Please provide proof that those coming here illegally are more indio than Spanish and what difference does it make anyways. They are still violating our immigration laws. Language and culture? Uh, where did the Spanish language come from if not Spain?
Not every Mexican speaks Spanish. An Indian that speaks Spanish is a mestizo, and a mestizo that speaks Nahuatl is an indio.

 
Old 02-28-2012, 04:13 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Not every Mexican speaks Spanish. An Indian that speaks Spanish is a mestizo, and a mestizo that speaks Nahuatl is an indio.
There are very few Mexicans who speak some native indian langauge compared to the number of Spanish speakers. Everyone of them that has been caught here illegally that I know of was speaking in Spanish not Nahuatl or any other native indian language. I don't see Nahuatl or any other native indian language being required to get a job here these days, advertisements or any press 2 for Nahuatl on your phone. These illegals tend to settle in Spanish speaking neighborhoods here also. Nice try, but no cigar.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
You could say that about most African Americans (like Benicar) in the sense that AAs are also partially descended from the illegal European settlers. But it matters not in their case. I understand that American blacks can feel certain ways about today's immigration dilemma, just that they are not descendants of immigrants or invaders themselves.
This is a prime example of why it's never good to assume. While it is common knowledge that many black Americans are the descendants of both African slaves and their white slave masters, I have no proof of that. So, I'll leave it alone. However, I am a descendant of immigrants, having two great-grandparents who came to this country from Germany. But, they entered with the permission of the U.S. government. Therefore, they were NOT illegal aliens. The others were born here; again, NOT illegal aliens. My ancestors who entered on slave ships, again, were NOT illegal aliens. So, unless you can prove otherwise, which we both know you can't, NONE of my ancestors were illegal aliens.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,730 posts, read 5,089,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
However the polls show that a majority of Mexicans do think they should be able to come to the U.S. without permission and that the southwest still belongs to them.
And this attitude is exactly why illegal immigration is such a threat. Mexicans are extremely chauvinistic, ethnocentric, and racist, points that are rarely brought up when discussing the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Probably more than 60%. As well, there's really not much difference between a Mestizo who is mostly Native and an indio. It's language and culture more than DNA. Most Mexicans in this country, especially those who come here illegally, are from working class/poor backgrounds, and those people are overwhelmingly of indigenous background, be they technically mestizo or not.
Quite so. It is puzzling and infuriating, for example, just how an illegal from Oaxaca, 3/4 Zapotec Indian, can somehow claim that we are in "his" country illegally and that we have an obligation to contribute to his support and to elevate him to a standard of living he never remotely enjoyed at home.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 04:58 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,090 posts, read 15,655,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Buy a history book or google it. Besides, the native ancestors of the Mexicans were not indigenous to this country and their descendants also have that white Spanish European blood flowing in their veins. So who are they to talk?
This is true.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 32,896,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
This is a prime example of why it's never good to assume. While it is common knowledge that many black Americans are the descendants of both African slaves and their white slave masters, I have no proof of that. So, I'll leave it alone. However, I am a descendant of immigrants, having two great-grandparents who came to this country from Germany. But, they entered with the permission of the U.S. government. Therefore, they were NOT illegal aliens. The others were born here; again, NOT illegal aliens. My ancestors who entered on slave ships, again, were NOT illegal aliens. So, unless you can prove otherwise, which we both know you can't, NONE of my ancestors were illegal aliens.
I never said they were.."..
 
Old 02-28-2012, 05:19 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Not every Mexican speaks Spanish. An Indian that speaks Spanish is a mestizo, and a mestizo that speaks Nahuatl is an indio.
What? Mestizo and indio are NOT the same. I'm quite sure many indio
/Indian Mexicans speak ONLY Spanish; not Nahuatl, which is either Mayan or Aztec lingo.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 05:22 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
You could say that about most African Americans (like Benicar) in the sense that AAs are also partially descended from the illegal European settlers. But it matters not in their case. I understand that American blacks can feel certain ways about today's immigration dilemma, just that they are not descendants of immigrants or invaders themselves.



I certainly agree with the bolded, and even the first part of the statement makes sense. But again you cannot escape the ironies I have pointed out as well.
There are no ironies.

America was not founded by illegals. Most Americans are not descended from them or from Indians or Jamestown colonists. Arguing they are is both insulting and inaccurate.

None of that ultimately matters in contemporary debates on immigration policy. Most nations have immigration policies either similiar to that of the United States or much less generous. Mexican officials hardly encourage millions of the world's poorest people to come to their nation, let alone to be subsidized by Mexico's middle class.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 05:25 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I didn't mention Mexican illegal immigration once. All I said was - or agreed with - was that the first European settlers on this land were also illegal immigrants.
So were quite a few Indians using your arguments. The stronger Indian nations took over or killed off the weaker nations. The only reasons there are still Indians here today is either racism keep them from being adopted by the white man as full equals or that MOST whites DON'T believe in genocide. Even back when Cortez was alive.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 05:31 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
April 26,1607, three British ships, the Susan Constant, the Godspeed, and the Discovery made landfall in the New World. The settlers aboard those three ships eventually established a settlement at what is now known as Jamestown.

Those original settlers were 104 brave men and boys (there were no women), all of whom were Caucasian Europeans who later became notorious for being angry white males.

These white males came to the New World only to pursue a better life for themselves and their families. In fact, however, these men and boys were America's first illegal aliens.

Native American Indians living in the Jamestown area in 1607 included the Pembroke, Paspahegh, Nansemonds, and Powhatan tribes, among others and tried to eliminate these white illegal settlers...via this declaration and precedent they imply the law.


You left off the Hispanics who came from Spain if you're gonna play THAT game against illegal white people. The Hispanics were here BEFORE Jamestown if my history class was right. Sheesh.

Now is now and then was then. The US wasn't started till 1776 so the la raza people need to talk with England AND Spain.
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