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Old 03-01-2012, 12:32 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,155 posts, read 46,811,218 times
Reputation: 33986

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So YOu are saying that the Amerindian tribes needed a written language, unified across the entire landmass that laid out their immigration rules to be in effect, but when it came to treaties of offering beads in exchange for land, those sorts of transactions didn't need to be recorded in writing on both sides, or even approved by all of the Amerindian inhabitants across that same landmass?...

Isn't there some disparity in that statement?...
Amerindian tribes

is the equivalent of calling a wolf a poodle by way of being a dog. They were not all the same.

 
Old 03-01-2012, 03:24 PM
 
Location: California
2,475 posts, read 2,070,963 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So YOu are saying that the Amerindian tribes needed a written language, unified across the entire landmass that laid out their immigration rules to be in effect, but when it came to treaties of offering beads in exchange for land, those sorts of transactions didn't need to be recorded in writing on both sides, or even approved by all of the Amerindian inhabitants across that same landmass?...

Isn't there some disparity in that statement?...
Indians didn't own land, their beliefs were they lived off the land, they entered into treaties of land use with settlers in the beginning and later with the formed Colonies, States, and eventually the Federal Gov't. Each tribe understood itself to be it's own nation, with a different language and culture than all others. Why else were there so many different treaties? They had no immigration rules, they simply managed their territories, traded with other tribes, fought with/against other tribes, etc. The Spanish pretty much came in and took what they wanted, while the British came in and purchased the land from the tribes.
Quote:
We could say that all conflicts between European settlers in America and American Indians were about land. The Indians had it; the Europeans wanted it. In many cases, Europeans simply took what they wanted. In most of British North America, though, settlers actually purchased land from natives. You might think that buying land rather than taking it would prevent conflict. But because Europeans and American Indians had very different ideas about what it meant to buy and to “own” land, these deals actually could cause as much conflict as they prevented.
The traditional view of European-Indian land deals is that Europeans tricked the Indians, who failed to understand the consequences of their actions. In fact, though, Indians often proved savvy negotiators, and most European settlers understood far less about Indian ideas of land ownership than the Indians understood about theirs. In the long run, the colonists won nearly every conflict over land ownership, because there were more of them: Their numbers grew continually, while the native population dwindled from disease, warfare, and slavery.
But if force often settled land disputes, what caused them in the first place were vastly different assumptions about what it meant to “own” land — assumptions deeply rooted in European and American Indian cultures and religions.
http://www.learnnc.org/lp/editions/nchist-colonial/2027

You can argue they were duped in not understanding the difference between land use vs land ownership and thus were placed onto reservations.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 03-01-2012 at 03:32 PM..
 
Old 03-01-2012, 06:22 PM
 
487 posts, read 382,012 times
Reputation: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Do you have a written letter of LEGAL Settlement on Indian Land (Jamestown)?
The British were hostile to the natives (and vice versa)! They did not abide by each others' laws! Seventeenth century European/Native relations were not civil nor were they ethical! But that was 1607 and this is 2012!
 
Old 03-01-2012, 06:38 PM
 
487 posts, read 382,012 times
Reputation: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
So because King James I signed a document allowing the creation of Virginia Company which became Jamestown, that was legal in the eyes of the Indians?

So basically any land without written law and borders (upheld by European standard law) can be taken?
Through war and expansion the British conquered what is now the United States and Canada. Was it ethical? No. Did it happen? Yes. Are you implying that Mexico should essentially declare war on the United States? Seems like it.
 
Old 03-01-2012, 07:05 PM
 
3,423 posts, read 3,207,047 times
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:14 PM
 
Location: California
2,475 posts, read 2,070,963 times
Reputation: 300
The irony is they are standing there holding rifles from the 1800's.
 
Old 03-01-2012, 07:25 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,865,638 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajs0503 View Post
Through war and expansion the British conquered what is now the United States and Canada. Was it ethical? No. Did it happen? Yes. Are you implying that Mexico should essentially declare war on the United States? Seems like it.
By today's rules it'd be wrong. By the rules back then, it was OK. Some people forget the native American Indians did the same things to each other. Even before Jamestown or Cortez.

IF Mexico did try to take our land; they'd lose and lose big.
 
Old 03-01-2012, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Armsanta Sorad
5,648 posts, read 8,041,650 times
Reputation: 2462
We're all members of some immigrant group.
 
Old 03-01-2012, 07:56 PM
 
3,423 posts, read 3,207,047 times
Reputation: 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
The irony is they are standing there holding rifles from the 1800's.
So. Our missiles are based on Nazi Technology. How ironic is that?
 
Old 03-01-2012, 08:24 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,865,638 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
So. Our missiles are based on Nazi Technology. How ironic is that?
The Aztec, Navajo, and so on didn't have guns till white people came here. The Indians didn't have horses either before Columbus.
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