U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-05-2012, 05:26 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Does it even matter today? NO one from back then is even alive now. If Mexico thinks it's going to get some land back from the US, I don't think so. Texas booted Mexico out, so did Guatemala yet people are mad over Texas but don't care about Guatemala.

I've said earlier in this thread had Spain put down Mexico's revolt 200 years ago, it's quite likely Spain would've SOLD what is now Mexico to the US a little later. Think France and the Louisiana Purchase.

Then there's the thing about the Gadsden Purchase: Mexico has NO claim at all to that since NO war was even involved.
Excellent post. I don't understand why those who weren't even alive back then are holding a grudge over the past. What has it to do with them? It's not like all of Mexico was bought or taken by the U.S. Mexico still exists as a country today. Why isn't the Mexican government itself starting a war with us over so-called "stolen land"? I think the answer is obvious. They have no claim over Texas or any other lands that they sold to the U.S. anymore.

 
Old 03-05-2012, 08:25 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
As for the prehistory of Mexican influence on our lands, perhaps you should read up a bit on exactly how they DID, in fact influence native cultures here. There is plenty of archaeological evidence to support widespread Mesoamerican influence on pre-Columbian Native American culture.
A link for your claim would be nice (since it is nothing more than theory). And at this point all we know is that some of our border tribes may have traded with some of the northern tribes of now Mexico - the Toltecs.

Funny, the Apache and Navajo wanted nothing to do with Mexican Culture or influence (The U.S.-Mexican War . War (1846-1848) . The U.S.-Mexican War: A Major Watershed | PBS).
 
Old 03-05-2012, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You did not answer my question. Do you think that white Americans in particular are hypocrites for wanting our immigration laws respected and enforced based on what their ancestors did or didn't do?
I think that Americans (not specific to any ethnicity) are often uninformed to how their ancestors came here...
 
Old 03-06-2012, 12:08 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,136 posts, read 21,125,167 times
Reputation: 23163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
Illegal Immigrants. Ask the Native Americans. You are all hypocrites and are the descendants of illegal immigrants. Of course back then they where called Pioneers and Explorers but it's the same difference.
The first recorded ships came here in the late 1500's and early 1600's and we became the United States of America in 1776. Are you trying to tell us those first settlers lived more than 150 years? An immigrant is someone who comes to a country after it is formed. Our founding fathers were already living on American soil and many had been born here before this country was formed. They were not immigrants of any shape or form. They were natives to this country. And they and the American Indians were my ancestors. I am not an immigrant or a hypocrite. I am just educated enough to know the difference between the words "native" and "immigrant."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...States_history

Any time that I hear "We are a nation of immigrants" I know that the person saying it is either stupid or uneducated. Hopefully the later!

Last edited by NCN; 03-06-2012 at 12:40 AM..
 
Old 03-06-2012, 02:52 AM
 
3,579 posts, read 2,646,840 times
Reputation: 3293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
A link for your claim would be nice (since it is nothing more than theory). And at this point all we know is that some of our border tribes may have traded with some of the northern tribes of now Mexico - the Toltecs.

Funny, the Apache and Navajo wanted nothing to do with Mexican Culture or influence (The U.S.-Mexican War . War (1846-1848) . The U.S.-Mexican War: A Major Watershed | PBS).

Historical Pottery

The Hopewell culture began to fade near the end of the Burial Mound II period. Around 700 CE a new tradition known as the Mississippian was forming in the area of northeastern Arkansas and southeastern Missouri. For the purposes of this exhibition, this region will be referred to as the "core area". There were substantial differences between Mississippian sites and their Woodland predecessors. Sites were marked by flat-topped mounds upon which temples and important buildings were constructed. As such, the Mississippian Tradition is divided into Temple Mound I and Temple Mound II periods. In contrast to the Hopewell sites, burial mounds became far less significant. Agriculture intensified considerably with the introduction of better strains of maize, which resulted in a far more sedentary lifestyle. New vessel forms arose along with new types of decoration. Shell tempering became the norm. Many of these characteristic features clearly indicate Mesoamerican influence. The relatively smooth and slow transition from Woodland to Mississippian traditions indicates that this influence was not direct, but absorbed gradually over time.

The Mississippian tradition is best represented by the site at Cahokia, in southern Illinois. The Temple Mound I phase is not well understood, but it appears to have been the continuation of a trend towards nucleation into large centers, but now these centers took on a form more like their Mesoamerican counterparts. From Cahokia other sites were "colonized" in outlying areas, such as Aztalan in Wisconsin, Obion in western Tennessee and Hiwassee Island in eastern Tennessee, and Macon, Georgia. Contemporary developments were occurring in the Lower Mississippi Valley, with the Coles Creek cultures of Louisiana and Mississippi. These were similar to the Cahokia types, and exerted influences eastward into Florida and Georgia and westward up into the Caddoan regions along the Red River.

http://www.indiana.edu/~arch/saa/mat...eb/mod13D.html


One issue that still raises its head deals with the apparent similarities between elements of Mississippian culture and
that of Mesoamerica.
1. This goes back to speculations on similarities between the Mesoamerican Olmec and Poverty Point
2. Truncated pyramid construction in both areas (even though the Mississippian ones are constructed of earth)
3. Death imagery in the Southern Cult artifacts
4. Specific points of Mississippian/Mesoamerican similarity:
a. Shell gorgets:
(1) Huaxtec (Northern Mesoamerica)
(2) Middle Mississippian and Caddoan (Spiro, Etowah, etc.)
(3) (Discuss the Gillmore Corridor linking the Caddoan area with Coahuila and the Huaxteca)
b. "Eccentric flints"
(1) Something the Maya excelled in
(2) Also found in Mississippian sites, but the style is different
c. Cultigens:
(1) Maize, beans and squash—the triumvirate—do appear to have originated in Mexico
(Mesoamerica) and traveled hence.
(2) But, other crops were in use by Mississippian peoples as well.
d. The Crystal River Site in Florida:
(1) Mounds arranged in a distinct plaza arrangement
(2) Stairs fronting central plaza
(3) At base of stairs are stones that appear to be reminiscent of stelae (à la Classic Maya?)
(4) In Florida, we also have recent evidence of some intensive wetland agriculture with features
perhaps analogueous to raised fields
e. Celestial serpents:
(1) Flying, winged, horned serpents in the Southeast
(2) Quetzalcoatl and Itzamna in Mesoamerica?
[SIZE=2] H. The bottom line is that we have yet to work out some of these questions. I. A Middle Mississippian figurine head was found in the cenote at the Classic Maya site of Dzibilchaltún in Yucatán thus indicating some kind of contact—direct, or "down the line." J. Given that Mesoamerican peoples were apparently aware and interested in the American Southwest (for turquoise), it would appear likely that others may have been prospecting the Southeast for things of value.[/SIZE]

http://www.beloit.edu/logan_online/e...nd/culture.php

In the eastern United States, the period from around 700 BCE to 1500 CE can be divided into two fairly distinct cultural traditions. The first, the Woodland Tradition, (sometimes referred to as the Burial Mound Builder Period), emerged from the Archaic tradition with the development of cultivation and ceramics. The second, the Mississippian Tradition, (also referred to as the Temple Mound Builder Period), developed out of the Woodland Tradition, but shows the influence of Mesoamerica in the near complete shifts in living patterns, agriculture and pottery types. Different parts of the East developed different forms of these traditions, but it is possible to discuss Woodland and Mississippian culture generally in terms of seven geographic areas, illustrated in the map below.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 07:22 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I think that Americans (not specific to any ethnicity) are often uninformed to how their ancestors came here...
Regardless of how our ancestors came or if we are uniformed about them or not I asked if you agreed with the OP that Americans (and in particular white Americans) are hypocrites today for wanting our immigration laws enforced based on what their ancestors did or didn't do.

I am not British or Spanish nor were any of my ancestors from any European country who came here as settlers. My ancestors came through Ellis Island. I am not uniformed about my ancestor's past. A family tree was done on both sides of my family. Regardless, it is ludicrous to hold any American alive today accountable for their ancestor's past by claiming they are here illegally or that they should dishonor our immigration laws today to make amends for them. Is it at all possible for you to be straight forward and agree or disagree with all of the above?
 
Old 03-06-2012, 07:34 AM
 
3,579 posts, read 2,646,840 times
Reputation: 3293
Immigration policy of the Republican party:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door - unless they are Hispanic."
 
Old 03-06-2012, 07:41 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Immigration policy of the Republican party:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door - unless they are Hispanic."
That simply isn't true. Please provide evidence that the Republicans don't want any legal immigration from Hispanic countries.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 08:31 AM
 
3,579 posts, read 2,646,840 times
Reputation: 3293
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
That simply isn't true. Please provide evidence that the Republicans don't want any legal immigration from Hispanic countries.

Considering the fact that there are currently about 70,000 undocumented Canadians working in the United States, when was the last time you heard a Republican complain about Illegal Canadian immigrants?
 
Old 03-06-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Your links still only show theory, they provide no evidence of anything (even though they are claiming influence) when in reality , they only suggest similarities. There are many Mesoamerican similarities to tribes in Africa, Egypt (Pyramids), etc, pushing the theory of contact prior to the time periods you suggest.

We know by DNA there were at least 5 possibly 6 different migrations. Those of mesoamerica and of the USA do not have the same DNA. Therefor, in theory, they may have traded over the centuries. Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can one now claim that the influence of Mesoamerica was actually from somewhere else? from other more advanced societies, or are we going to go into the aliens theory?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top