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Old 03-08-2012, 07:51 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Oh shut it.

Clearly reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit.

As I have repeatedly stated I am neither Christian nor conservative. And I think Rush is a crude, stupid, loud mouthed, bird brained, sexist, drug using creep who should be in jail. Is it possible for you to stop thinking in stereotypes?

My problem is with people who violate American immigration laws. My problem is with those who insult Americans for wanting them to leave. My problem is with people who live here without permission and do not bother to learn English. Your problem is that you defend such people. Your problem is that you have not bothered to think about the consquences of your actions. Your problem is that you mistakenly believe that you are a better person because you do so.

You might want to stop doing that.

You have set up two classes of people. Americans are lazy, arrogant, xenophobes who lack compassion and have the nerve not to learn Spanish to make life easier for illegals. People who willfully violate American immigration law, OTOH, are wonderful people clearly deserving of love, kindness, respect and the right to live here without learning a word of English.

Why do you think like that?
Excellent post, Eleanora.

 
Old 03-08-2012, 07:55 AM
 
3,579 posts, read 2,646,840 times
Reputation: 3293
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Where in my post did I say that? All lawbreakers should suffer the consequences of their actions and that would include our own citizens. The punishment fits the crime. Illegals get deported and citizens can't be so they are incarcerated in our jails or prisons. Try not twisting other people's words, ok?
And how do you deport 12 million people without spending more money than you would by simply giving them amnesty and letting them become the productive American citizens that they want to be in the first place. The vast majority didn't come here with the intention of breaking laws. Mexico and Guatamala are war zones. So it should surprise no one that many people want to get the hell out of the line of fire. Now, instead of claiming that they are all criminals deserving of the full penalty of the law, perhaps you folks could show a little humanity.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 07:59 AM
 
3,579 posts, read 2,646,840 times
Reputation: 3293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Oh shut it.
So you will now be trying to deny me of my constitutional rights. No ma'am, I will not "shut it". Nice try, though.

Quote:
Clearly reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit.

As I have repeatedly stated I am neither Christian nor conservative. And I think Rush is a crude, stupid, loud mouthed, bird brained, sexist, drug using creep who should be in jail. Is it possible for you to stop thinking in stereotypes?

My problem is with people who violate American immigration laws. My problem is with those who insult Americans for wanting them to leave. My problem is with people who live here without permission and do not bother to learn English. Your problem is that you defend such people. Your problem is that you have not bothered to think about the consquences of your actions. Your problem is that you mistakenly believe that you are a better person because you do so.

You might want to stop doing that.

You have set up two classes of people. Americans are lazy, arrogant, xenophobes who lack compassion and have the nerve not to learn Spanish to make life easier for illegals. People who willfully violate American immigration law, OTOH, are wonderful people clearly deserving of love, kindness, respect and the right to live here without learning a word of English.

Why do you think like that?
Speaking of thinking in stereotypes...
 
Old 03-08-2012, 08:08 AM
 
3,579 posts, read 2,646,840 times
Reputation: 3293
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
And other than illegal aliens most foreigners living here know how to speak English.
This is simply not true. I live in a very diverse community, one that has Africans (both Christians and Muslims), Greeks, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Hispanic, and even Samoans, as well as your average, run-o-the-mill Americans. I don't see that any of these foreigners have learned English any better than any of the Hispanics who live here, regardless of their legal status. In fact, the Hispanics here are more friendly than any of the other groups, probably because their cultural ties are far less removed from ours than it is with the others.

Quote:
So we already have a language to communicate in. It is a waste of time and ridiculous for you to demand that Americans speak several languages when there is no need for it. That isn't the same thing as having an adversion to learning other languages. Sorry, but I disagree that we are a multicultural, multilingual country. We have an identifying culture and language and all others are just minority cultures and languages.
There are hundreds of languages and dialects spoken throughout the world. People say that America is the greatest nation on the planet, and a world leader. Now I ask you, how do you suppose it is that any world leader can claim to have such status when it is so unwilling to learn how to talk to people who don't speak their language? It's just a sad case of parochialism, nothing more. You can't be a world leader while holding on to parochial thinking and expect to hold that leadership position for very long. Good luck trying.

Hasta la vista, baby! Do you need an interpreter for that?
 
Old 03-08-2012, 08:15 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
And how do you deport 12 million people without spending more money than you would by simply giving them amnesty and letting them become the productive American citizens that they want to be in the first place. The vast majority didn't come here with the intention of breaking laws. Mexico and Guatamala are war zones. So it should surprise no one that many people want to get the hell out of the line of fire. Now, instead of claiming that they are all criminals deserving of the full penalty of the law, perhaps you folks could show a little humanity.
Just out of curiosity have you read any of the posts on this forum? Looked at this issue at all? Or have just decided that because the people in question are not EVIL XENOPHOBIC LACKING IN COMPASSION MONOLINGUAL LAZY AMERICANS that they must be inherently right?



You could show a little humanity of your own by stop asking middle class Americans to solve Mexico and Guatemala's problems. Mexico is the world's 12th richest nation. Mexicans have national health insurance. Average per capita income in Mexico is well above world standards. One third of all Mexicans are actually obese. Mexico is not a war zone. Mexico is a fairly prosperous nation.

Mexican officials should not have the right to solve their problems by telling their high school drop outs with four children who don't speak English to break into America. We have the right to set our borders, determine who lives here and ask them to be productive people who obey our immigration laws and learn our language. I'm profoundly sorry you seem to think otherwise.

Handing amnesty to Mexicans who jumped the immigration lines is a horrible idea. It will only encourage more Mexicans to move here in even larger numbers. It will add to the national debt by allowing them to collect welfare as they are not able to command much money in the workforce. It insults legal immigrants who waited their turn, punishes the lower classes in this country by forcing them to compete for jobs, raises taxes on middle class Americans and props up Mexico's oligarchy.

In short it's a lousy idea proposed by the smug and ill informed who hold most Americans in contempt. The way to get 12 million people to leave is to make life as difficult as possible for them. No interpreters for those too lazy to learn English. No money for anchor babies. Jail and fines for them and their employers.

It's that simple.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 08:19 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
So you will now be trying to deny me of my constitutional rights. No ma'am, I will not "shut it". Nice try, though.



Speaking of thinking in stereotypes...
I am trying to correct your ignorance. I am clearly, unfortunately, failing miserably. You have no problem making incredibly nasty generalizations about Americans while infantizing illegals and excusing their actions. You might want to stop that.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 08:23 AM
 
3,579 posts, read 2,646,840 times
Reputation: 3293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Just out of curiosity have you read any of the posts on this forum? Looked at this issue at all? Or have just decided that because the people in question are not EVIL XENOPHOBIC LACKING IN COMPASSION MONOLINGUAL LAZY AMERICANS that they must be inherently right?



You could show a little humanity of your own by stop asking middle class Americans to solve Mexico and Guatemala's problems.
How ironic it is that conservatives tell us that we have no reason to try to help Mexico (a border nation to ours) solve its dire problems, problems that are bleeding over to us and ACTUALLY THREATENING OUR NATIONAL SECURITY but are more than willing to go to war and spend a trillion dollars to "solve" a problem a half a world away that had nothing to do with our national security.

Quote:
Mexico is the world's 12th richest nation. Mexicans have national health insurance. Average per capita income in Mexico is well above world standards. One third of all Mexicans are actually obese. Mexico is not a war zone. Mexico is a fairly prosperous nation.
Not a war zone? What log have you been sleeping under?

Mexican Drug War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Drug 'War Zone' Rattles U.S.-Mexico Border - ABC News

US ranchers: We live in fear along Mexican border - Nightly News - msnbc.com
 
Old 03-08-2012, 08:25 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
There are hundreds of languages and dialects spoken throughout the world. People say that America is the greatest nation on the planet, and a world leader. Now I ask you, how do you suppose it is that any world leader can claim to have such status when it is so unwilling to learn how to talk to people who don't speak their language? It's just a sad case of parochialism, nothing more. You can't be a world leader while holding on to parochial thinking and expect to hold that leadership position for very long. Good luck trying.

Hasta la vista, baby! Do you need an interpreter for that?
None of that has anything to do with the subject of illegal immigration.

Do you or do you not think that illegals, should at the very least, learn English before they get here? Or do you think they should be allowed not only to violate American immigration laws but to demand that Americans learn Spanish?

Why?

Why are you so willing to tell Americans that we're awful people because most of us don't speak another language (and by that you mean Spanish) while steadfastly refusing to condemn illegal aliens who don't speak English? Do they have any obligations at all?

Any?

 
Old 03-08-2012, 08:28 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Erm, I think that was part of my point. Oh, except for the Catholic Church, which has a long history of helping immigrants, whether or not they are here legally.

Are illegal immigrants here illegally? Yes. Duh. That's why they are called illegal immigrants. But whether or not they are here legally, they are still human beings deserving of human dignity and respect. Walk a mile on someone else's shoes, dude.
Even the Catholic church recognizes as Christians do. All faiths will feed them, cloth them, and teach them, but it is upon the persons conscience that weighs the most. Is this where we get all philosophical? Deportation does not interfere with their dignity nor does it derive them of their respect, if anything it teaches them to respect others and humbles them of their dignity by not taking what is not theirs to take. (this is where you clamor about they do it to better their lives and that of their children's) .

Walk a mile... So, to you, being poor is justification to steal. They are not dying in their own countries from being poor, yet you justify their status with stealing from the US based on their dignity and requirement of respect? Seems you don't know what dignity and respect actually mean.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 08:30 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
How ironic it is that conservatives tell us that we have no reason to try to help Mexico (a border nation to ours) solve its dire problems, problems that are bleeding over to us and ACTUALLY THREATENING OUR NATIONAL SECURITY but are more than willing to go to war and spend a trillion dollars to "solve" a problem a half a world away that had nothing to do with our national security.



Not a war zone? What log have you been sleeping under?

Mexican Drug War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Drug 'War Zone' Rattles U.S.-Mexico Border - ABC News

US ranchers: We live in fear along Mexican border - Nightly News - msnbc.com
Helping Mexico should not consist of letting their high school drop outs move here, collect middle class tax dollars and punish our own poor. Do you understand that all that kind of "help" ultimately does is prop up Mexico's oligarchy?

If parts of Mexico suck well guess what? SO DO PARTS OF THE REST OF THE WORLD INCLUDING AMERICA. Shall I pull up pics of East Saint Louis or East Orange for you? Detroit? Indian communities where the unemployment rate exceeds 50%? Our own failing schools that look like war zones?

And if that's your justification for the idea that Mexicans should be able to move here without permission what other peoples do you think should be able to violate American immigration laws with impunity? Can every single poor person move here? Or is it just Mexicans?
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