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Old 09-09-2007, 02:01 PM
 
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Whoa. Forced?

Also, how many of our ancestors would have been turned away at Ellis Island for not speaking English. They learned, though.
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
Also, how many of our ancestors would have been turned away at Ellis Island for not speaking English. They learned, though.
I had one set of grandparents who came through Ellis Island in the early 1900s. Neither of them ever learned English even though they were both citizens of the USA.

Another set of great-grandparents came through Ellis Island prior to 1850 and they did learn English.

I don't think it's possible to generalize that everyone learned English once they got here.
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Old 09-09-2007, 08:21 PM
 
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Well, I can tell you that according to NCLB, there should be no need for ESL in public schools by 2009. Not sure how families who enter the country in late 2008 are going to fit in after that......but that is the NCLB statement!

Dawn
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Old 09-09-2007, 09:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Willys View Post
Rather than learn more foreign languages, other than Canadian, shouldn't our schools focus on something more useful, such as math and physics rather than recess and tea time?
Amen!! I can not agree with you more.
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jadel812 View Post
I live in the United States where english is pretty much the official language of the country. Though I wouldn't call it the "native tongue", nevertheless, it is the official language. There has been great concerns and dispute about the ever growing spanish population in this country and though I myself love the whole diversity thing, many people are having a problem with having put up with non-english speaking people refusing to learn the language of the majority and for those who speaks very good english, they choose to speak spanish in your presence; whether it be in the work place or in friendly circle. Do you believe that the government should require that all who resides here should learn to speak english? Do you believe that the government is right for making everything bilingual?
Actually when people deliberately speak Spanish in your presence they are just being rude. They are basically saying you aren't even worthy of being acknowledged in their presence. And yes I believe all residents should learn English, and I disagree with the government making everything bilingual. But in reality, the government sees the huge number of legal and illegal immigrants here and they cater to them without regard to you or your concerns.
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
Let's make it the official language when Bush starts speaking it!
I doubt that will ever happen.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by crittersitter View Post
Every citizen should be forced to learn English before becoming a citizen. The government (your and my taxes) should not pay for everything in Spanish too.
Somehow agree w/ that. But what are we going to do with the 12% of "born here americans" who can not really speak english neither...
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
Actually when people deliberately speak Spanish in your presence they are just being rude. They are basically saying you aren't even worthy of being acknowledged in their presence. And yes I believe all residents should learn English, and I disagree with the government making everything bilingual. But in reality, the government sees the huge number of legal and illegal immigrants here and they cater to them without regard to you or your concerns.
Any language, not just spanish.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:29 PM
 
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So, since Puerto Rico is a US territory and it's citizens are US citizens, should they all be required to speak English? As it stands now, Spanish and English are both official languages but only 25% of the people speak English.
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
It's entirely possible this lady is just embarrassed--it could be she does understand English to an extent, but has been ridiculed for her accent. I personally know many people like this. She may speak English to you in private, but not in front of a "group".
ALSO--and quite important--the process of learning a foreign language (particularly as an adult) is not fully understood--and some people can "pick it up" rapidly, with little or no accent. Others, of equal intelligence, can barely manage even after years, and never are able to lose their thick accent.
Remember also that English is considered a rather difficult language. Even we English speakers have many jokes and puns illustrating "our" language's very complicated "rules"---or LACK of rules. Every word, it seems, requires one to learn a differnt pronunciation. It's far more complicated in this respect than many other languages, including Spanish.
if you knew where i live, you would know that the idea that anyone here would not speak english if she were able out of apprehension that someone else might laugh at her accent is pretty preposterous: half the people in this city speak with an accent of one kind or another, including many very intelligent and highly educated folks! an accent, by itself, is indicative of nothing except that english is not the speaker's first language, and there is no one here who doesn't realize that. even native english-speaking kids do not laugh at their classmates who struggle with english, because it's nothing unusual.

more to the point, however, i am speaking of people who, by their own accounts, at least, "have" to come here just to feed their families. it seems to me that they shouldn't consider themselves to have a choice about learning english, no matter how difficult a language it might be to master. embarrassed and tongue-tied or not, speaking english is going to be a basic requirement for any kind of meaningful rise in their economic status. the fact that many do not even try to learn says to me that they aren't here to work hard and to elevate themselves to the fullest extent possible, but to take advantage of all the perceived "freebies" our federal and state governments make available to them-- benefits that, for the most part, would NOT be available to them if they learned english and got a "decent-paying" jobs, instead of condemning themselves and most probably their children to lives of poverty by not taking that important first step up: learning the language!

many of these people have family members who already speak english, and could help them learn. many have young children who are learning to read and write in english at school, and they could pick up the fundamentals just by doing the workbook exercises along with their kids, or after they've gone to bed. they could spend a couple nights a week in adult school, where ESL classes are practically the only thing offered these days. they could learn adult-level vocabulary by watching television in english, instead of all that spanish language programming flooding the airwaves, and contributing to its viewers' ignorance of the english language.

there's really no excuse. even those who arrive illiterate in their native tongue can learn to speak english, if they are so inclined. far too many are not, and that is partly our fault for making it too damn easy for them to get along in society without knowing the native language.

Last edited by katenik; 09-10-2007 at 08:31 PM..
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