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You're living in a dream world. There are plenty of jobs that illegals do that aren't even hard labor; Americans won't do those jobs either. Not because they're grueling, but because Americans turn their nose up at the pay and low prestige of the job. They'd rather take welfare and get health benefits. Illegals fill the void, and they probably do about as good a job if they can speak even passable English. Moreover, they don't call in sick or take days off; they show up to work. Which employee would you want: the college kid who gets hungover and expects to have a "better" job within a few months, or someone who walked across a desert just to get a minimum wage job? Get real.
Try again. Not all of our kids are useless as you just said. Kids tend to be lazy when young; then they grow up. I know quite a few older people who WANT to work but cant' because they're fighting against illegal aliens.
No; chickenfriedbananas; the REAL reason employers hire illegal aliens is because they can get DOCILE LABOR FOR CHEAP. Try that illegal crap with an American and it'll hit the fan real fast!
Another thing: if illegal aliens were such good workers; they'd be back home in Mexico doing well. Plus Mexico wants then here cause of the remittances. Cut down illegal immigration a lot and Mexico may fall over.
You're living in a dream world. There are plenty of jobs that illegals do that aren't even hard labor; Americans won't do those jobs either. Not because they're grueling, but because Americans turn their nose up at the pay and low prestige of the job. They'd rather take welfare and get health benefits. Illegals fill the void, and they probably do about as good a job if they can speak even passable English. Moreover, they don't call in sick or take days off; they show up to work. Which employee would you want: the college kid who gets hungover and expects to have a "better" job within a few months, or someone who walked across a desert just to get a minimum wage job? Get real.
You get real.
If they were of any value economically Mexico and Guatemala would be begging them to return instead of pushing them on the American taxpayer. Stop bashing Americans and idealing Mexican high school drop outs who break our immigration laws.
Americans have the right to enforce our immigration and employment laws. Illegals who skirt them should be fined and jailed. Employers who are too cheap to pay decent wages should also be fined and then deported along with them.
They can do whatever they want with their money. You guys complain about everything!!
Privately yes. But when they go groveling to the FedGov about the lack of skill and ask for an increase in H1B visas then they are stepping over the line.
Why are we pushing STEM now so heavily ? Why go into these fields when the big corps are building R&D labs in India/China and hiring PhDs there for a mere $25-$30K/year ?
Just look at a list of US companies operating R&D labs in Bangalore as an example. And these are new labs that are hiring and expanding.
You're living in a dream world. There are plenty of jobs that illegals do that aren't even hard labor; Americans won't do those jobs either. Not because they're grueling, but because Americans turn their nose up at the pay and low prestige of the job. They'd rather take welfare and get health benefits. Illegals fill the void, and they probably do about as good a job if they can speak even passable English. Moreover, they don't call in sick or take days off; they show up to work. Which employee would you want: the college kid who gets hungover and expects to have a "better" job within a few months, or someone who walked across a desert just to get a minimum wage job? Get real.
Yes, they fill that void of entry level jobs that America's youth used to do.
Not every American kid is as you describe but it suits you to use that as justification for the near 30% UE rate of our youth.
"Jobs Americans don't want" is a poor excuse to use.
Fast food/retail used to be the entry point for kids to learn the work environment and responsibility.
Trades also had entry level points for HS graduates to get on the job experience and learn a skill.
Those entry level niches are now filled with adults (take your pick as to why). So what do we do now with our unemployable youth ? Send them to college and hope 4 years later they can get good paying white collar jobs ?
I thought that might be your bottom line. Not just a distaste for illegals, but a general resistance to immigration on the whole.
Now you're twisting my words. There's a huge difference between having a preference for those who will actually benefit this country, and being resistant to legal immigration. Why should we admit ALL who wish to come? That would also include criminals, terrorists, and all forms of parasites and dregs. Is that what you're suggesting?
Apparently you forgot your own comments. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas
Anyone who wants to come here and make contributions and can support themselves, should come.
So, I am anti-immigration because I believe immigrants should benefit this country. But, you are NOT anti-immigration for stating they should be required to make a contribution and support themselves? Hmmm. . .
You can't have it both ways. You can't advocate for open borders, and also advocate restrictions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas
Yeah, well, whatever. If we keep them out, then that's fine, but you can't stop economics, and American companies are definitely interested in foreign workers, whether you like it or not. If they don't bring workers here, then they'll just move their base of operations there. It might even be more advantageous since they can build up their working class to the point where they would not only be a cheap source of labor, but one day, a strong economy full of middle class consumers -- something that this country seems to have forgotten about long ago in its understanding of how capitalism actually works in the real world (as opposed to how people *think* capitalism works by watching stupid right wing meat-head sound bytes).
I do find it rather strange, to say the least, that a U.S. citizen would actually support the decimation of our middle class. Do you actually not realize if companies continue to employ foreign workers, whether in this country or abroad, that will substantially limit the employment prospects for citizens. It's one thing to understand our global economy. But, it's quite different to actually revel in the thought of U.S. citizens being replaced by foreign workers. You claim to be a U.S. citizen. But, I find that very hard to believe.
Why do you continue to assume that everyone opposed to illegal immigration is a right-wing conservative, or parroting "right-wing meathead sound bytes?" Is that what you learned from watching MSNBC or similar liberal media? If you actually believe only right-wing conservatives oppose illegal immigration, or the replacement of our workers by foreigners, you're in for a very rude awakening.
Try again. Not all of our kids are useless as you just said. Kids tend to be lazy when young; then they grow up. I know quite a few older people who WANT to work but cant' because they're fighting against illegal aliens.
I didn't say that they were all useless or that they don't work hard. I'm saying that there are enough people here who don't work hard and are otherwise useless that it's nice enough to have people who are willing to come to this country to do sh*t work that apparently not enough people here are willing to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan
No; chickenfriedbananas; the REAL reason employers hire illegal aliens is because they can get DOCILE LABOR FOR CHEAP. Try that illegal crap with an American and it'll hit the fan real fast!
Like I say, the companies that care about doing only cheap and shoddy work...there's a market for that. It's also not the market that most people want to be in. Employers who use illegals for that purpose end up having all sorts of problems later.
The other way to use illegals is to fill in labor gaps, and a lot of the jobs that Hispanic immigrants (probably legal or illegal) fill are just ordinary jobs that are at or even below minimum wage (you do realize that restaurant service jobs are actually legally allowed to pay below min. wages, right?). They take jobs where service just has to be prompt and adequate. They might also cook or clean. They take jobs that their skills will enable them to perform. And they take the jobs that are left behind by native-born Americans who can get a better deal on the government dole or who are simply "too good" to be working in that line of work. Even during the deepest period of the recession there were plenty of unfilled jobs in basic service. Illegals filled some of them. Others just went unfilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan
Another thing: if illegal aliens were such good workers; they'd be back home in Mexico doing well. Plus Mexico wants then here cause of the remittances. Cut down illegal immigration a lot and Mexico may fall over.
U.S. wages are higher. They confront the higher costs of living here by living together and pooling financial resources. But they can pool resources together and send money back home.
Now you're twisting my words. There's a huge difference between having a preference for those who will actually benefit this country, and being resistant to legal immigration. Why should we admit ALL who wish to come? That would also include criminals, terrorists, and all forms of parasites and dregs. Is that what you're suggesting?
Apparently you forgot your own comments. . .
So, I am anti-immigration because I believe immigrants should benefit this country. But, you are NOT anti-immigration for stating they should be required to make a contribution and support themselves? Hmmm. . .
You can't have it both ways. You can't advocate for open borders, and also advocate restrictions.
There's no reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to bring their family members over as well, as long as they can provide for themselves or as long as their families can provide for them. That was the point. Nobody is suggesting allowing criminals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
I do find it rather strange, to say the least, that a U.S. citizen would actually support the decimation of our middle class. Do you actually not realize if companies continue to employ foreign workers, whether in this country or abroad, that will substantially limit the employment prospects for citizens. It's one thing to understand our global economy. But, it's quite different to actually revel in the thought of U.S. citizens being replaced by foreign workers. You claim to be a U.S. citizen. But, I find that very hard to believe.
Where did I say that I support the decimation of the middle class? I never said I revel in the thought of Americans losing their jobs. I'm pointing out that it's inevitable. People who waste their time on illegal immigration issues are missing the obvious.
Americans work the longest hours and have the fewest days off of any industrialized nation on the planet. I'm sick of people arguing we're lazy when we aren't. Average American wages have remained stagnant for most people while soaring for those at the very top. Why do we need to import massive numbers of people who can't even be bothered to obey our immigration laws to help drive down wages even further?
The low wages illegals get aren't cost free. When you fail to provide them with health care they show up in emergency rooms and pass the costs on to the consumer. They bring their kids with them thus increasing property taxes. They drive on roads without licensure or insurance thus passing the costs onto the consumer and local municipalities. In dozens of ways they impose costs on many communities including costs for interpreters and increased use of local resources they don't pay for.
The alleged low cost of illegal labor is really only a delusion held by ethnic nationalists and cheap employers who don't give a damn about their fellow Americans.
I fail to see why their idiotic aims should be enshrined into law.
Why do you continue to assume that everyone opposed to illegal immigration is a right-wing conservative, or parroting "right-wing meathead sound bytes?" Is that what you learned from watching MSNBC or similar liberal media? If you actually believe only right-wing conservatives oppose illegal immigration, or the replacement of our workers by foreigners, you're in for a very rude awakening.
This. I'm liberal socially with a 'live and let live' attitude, but I don't like paying for other peoples' decisions. I'm not a right-wing conservative; I vote Democrat most of the time, but I am firmly and vehemently opposed to illegal immigration AND to amnesty of any kind.
I also favor drastically reducing legal immigration. It's pure insanity to continue to admit legal immigrants with our high unemployment rate. It's BS.
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