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Old 09-21-2007, 07:30 PM
 
92 posts, read 39,068 times
Reputation: 15

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everyone says "illegal is illegal", but they dont recognize the violent means of the acquisition of the american land. at least the "illegals" arent massacring the american population. theyre over here WORKING. you people need to read a history book that goes back farther than 250 years, and get a good sense of who is the "illegal".. and who is really the violent criminal.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,731,997 times
Reputation: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h3.6h057 View Post
everyone says "illegal is illegal", but they dont recognize the violent means of the acquisition of the american land. at least the "illegals" arent massacring the american population. theyre over here WORKING. you people need to read a history book that goes back farther than 250 years, and get a good sense of who is the "illegal".. and who is really the violent criminal.
Yep working ILLEGALLY!!! My family didnt aquire any land from anyone in a violent manner. Past is the past.........we need to protect our kids futures.And someof the illegals are having no issue killing Americas citizens, and commiting other crimes. None of the American citizens here are Illegal. I have native American friends, they even say the land wasnt theirs they didnt own it. No the massacre should of never happened. But it did,cant change the past. My ancestors and millions of others took no part in that. So it can not be put onto us.
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:07 PM
 
92 posts, read 39,068 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Yep working ILLEGALLY!!!
what a crime. just out of curiosity, can you spot someone working illegally without looking at their papers? obviously not. i guess that makes the "crime" circumstancial. which means its bullcrap.
Quote:
My family didnt aquire any land from anyone in a violent manner.
mexican land was sold to the US without the consent of many of the families. all this means is that we are responsible for the actions of our culture. regardless of whether your family had any direct violence towards native americans, they indirectly advocated it by living under the governing body of the white culture that was directly responsible for the illegal acquisition. guilt by association, buddy.
Quote:
Past is the past.........
so all the "illegals" that crossed here a couple years back shouldn't be subjected to criticisms... because, in fact, they immigrated here in the past. and the past is the past...........
Quote:
we need to protect our kids futures.
there are a lot more real threats to the next generation. maybe you should take issue with the excessive government spending? we have an enormous defecit. social security is being paid into by the young working class, but probably wont be around for them to reap the benefits. privitization isnt the answer, either. the young populace is fighting the war in iraq, too. we should be increasing veterans benefits if we want that sect to be properly accomodated. hell, the war itself is costing us billions. that money could be used to improve and pay for education and city services. your anger is directed at the WRONG TARGET.
Quote:
And someof the illegals are having no issue killing Americas citizens, and commiting other crimes.
and some citizens have no issue doing the same, either. their immigrant status is an unrelated variable. so quit bringing it up.
Quote:
None of the American citizens here are Illegal.
under their own laws. convenient.
Quote:
I have native American friends, they even say the land wasnt theirs they didnt own it.
and? some natives feel the land was stolen. and given the circumstances, its a more accurate assesment.
Quote:
No the massacre should of never happened. But it did,cant change the past.
but you can learn from it.
Quote:
My ancestors and millions of others took no part in that. So it can not be put onto us.
you follow the law of the white man that arose due to the violent acquisition. that makes you indirectly involved. and its a hypocritical law. people have a right to believe what they want... and the only way someone can dismiss someone's belief is if its contradictory or hypocritical, which is a testament to the ignorance of the law.
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,731,997 times
Reputation: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h3.6h057 View Post
what a crime. just out of curiosity, can you spot someone working illegally without looking at their papers? obviously not. i guess that makes the "crime" circumstancial. which means its bullcrap. mexican land was sold to the US without the consent of many of the families. all this means is that we are responsible for the actions of our culture. regardless of whether your family had any direct violence towards native americans, they indirectly advocated it by living under the governing body of the white culture that was directly responsible for the illegal acquisition. guilt by association, buddy. so all the "illegals" that crossed here a couple years back shouldn't be subjected to criticisms... because, in fact, they immigrated here in the past. and the past is the past........... there are a lot more real threats to the next generation. maybe you should take issue with the excessive government spending? we have an enormous defecit. social security is being paid into by the young working class, but probably wont be around for them to reap the benefits. privitization isnt the answer, either. the young populace is fighting the war in iraq, too. we should be increasing veterans benefits if we want that sect to be properly accomodated. hell, the war itself is costing us billions. that money could be used to improve and pay for education and city services. your anger is directed at the WRONG TARGET. and some citizens have no issue doing the same, either. their immigrant status is an unrelated variable. so quit bringing it up. under their own laws. convenient. and? some natives feel the land was stolen. and given the circumstances, its a more accurate assesment. but you can learn from it.

you follow the law of the white man that arose due to the violent acquisition. that makes you indirectly involved. and its a hypocritical law. people have a right to believe what they want... and the only way someone can dismiss someone's belief is if its contradictory or hypocritical, which is a testament to the ignorance of the law.



White man, says alot. Bitterness for the things that happened over 200 years ago will eat you up. Time to move on and get over it. Dont like the way we do things or our laws, too bad it'stheway it is. We are gong to fix the situation with the illegals. I was born here, my family wasnt, because we speak english and follow the laws doesnt associate us with anything 200-300 years ago. Hey I vote we just all go to Mexico and take it over. I mean the spainards stole it after all as someone here that is a professor in history let me know, so I guess it doesnt belong to them either and we dont have to obide by their laws as well. BTW buddy, I am a female, not your buddy and how do you know I am white?
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:27 PM
jco
 
Location: Austin
2,120 posts, read 5,874,846 times
Reputation: 1389
Please calm down.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:03 PM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,751,125 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h3.6h057 View Post
what a crime. just out of curiosity, can you spot someone working illegally without looking at their papers? obviously not. i guess that makes the "crime" circumstancial. which means its bullcrap. mexican land was sold to the US without the consent of many of the families. all this means is that we are responsible for the actions of our culture. regardless of whether your family had any direct violence towards native americans, they indirectly advocated it by living under the governing body of the white culture that was directly responsible for the illegal acquisition. guilt by association, buddy. so all the "illegals" that crossed here a couple years back shouldn't be subjected to criticisms... because, in fact, they immigrated here in the past. and the past is the past........... there are a lot more real threats to the next generation. maybe you should take issue with the excessive government spending? we have an enormous defecit. social security is being paid into by the young working class, but probably wont be around for them to reap the benefits. privitization isnt the answer, either. the young populace is fighting the war in iraq, too. we should be increasing veterans benefits if we want that sect to be properly accomodated. hell, the war itself is costing us billions. that money could be used to improve and pay for education and city services. your anger is directed at the WRONG TARGET. and some citizens have no issue doing the same, either. their immigrant status is an unrelated variable. so quit bringing it up. under their own laws. convenient. and? some natives feel the land was stolen. and given the circumstances, its a more accurate assesment. but you can learn from it.

you follow the law of the white man that arose due to the violent acquisition. that makes you indirectly involved. and its a hypocritical law. people have a right to believe what they want... and the only way someone can dismiss someone's belief is if its contradictory or hypocritical, which is a testament to the ignorance of the law.
Our ancestors were responsible for what they did Yrs ago. Not us.
That is like saying that Germans owe the Jews and everyother nationality that was harmed by Hitler/germans every handout they want. Sounds silly doesn't it.

The definition of
Noun: guilt by association
The attribution of guilt (without proof) to individuals because the people they associate with are guilty.
I don't believe anyone living today was around when the fighting was going on over the territories so there fore cannot be guilt by association.

Furthermore they took land long ago many countries have been split and split some fought and got it back and some not. So should we reverse all land acquisitions from ago because they won them in violent war?

Follow the law of the white man...... What...
I did not know our government was only white. you better tell that to all the nationalities that hold positions to get the h*ll out of office.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:19 PM
 
92 posts, read 39,068 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
Our ancestors were responsible for what they did Yrs ago. Not us.
That is like saying that Germans owe the Jews and everyother nationality that was harmed by Hitler/germans every handout they want. Sounds silly doesn't it.
the germans stopped committing genocide. we "illegally" immigrated here, yet continue to advocate a strict immigration policy. that is why your analogy fails.
Quote:
The definition of
Noun: guilt by association
The attribution of guilt (without proof) to individuals because the people they associate with are guilty.
thanks for telling me what i already know.
Quote:
I don't believe anyone living today was around when the fighting was going on over the territories so there fore cannot be guilt by association.
thats your belief. anyone that fights to advocate a strict immigration policy after obtaining their own immigration "illegally" is a hypocrite and therefore their beliefs are invalid. granted, you personally didnt immigrate anywhere, you were born here (i assume), but you have made no efforts to right the wrongs of your anscestry, but rather redirected the hate to a new wave of immigrants, since it's "your land" now. its convenient to deny reparations, and even amnesty, when youre the lucky one that was born here. if you came into this position of privilege due to the actions of your anscestors, then you should understand that if the "illegals" become the ruling faction in the united states, they did it fair and square, to insure their future generations a position of privilege. all's fair in love and war.
Quote:
Furthermore they took land long ago many countries have been split and split some fought and got it back and some not. So should we reverse all land acquisitions from ago because they won them in violent war?
at the very least we could SHARE... most of us learned to do that in kindergarten.
Quote:
Follow the law of the white man...... What...
I did not know our government was only white. you better tell that to all the nationalities that hold positions to get the h*ll out of office.
the majority of legislation has been authored and enacted by old white men. look at our country's presidents. all of them....
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:33 PM
 
273 posts, read 179,790 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h3.6h057 View Post
excuse me? i dont appreciate the deletion of my posts at all.
That's right, you're violating his free speech. And besides, it takes a heck of a long time when he can only strike the keys with one finger at a time.

Back to the topic:
If you had a choice between an educated illegal from india or an uneducated one from mexico, which do you think would be more productive in our society?
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:38 PM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,751,125 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo-me View Post
That's right, you're violating his free speech. And besides, it takes a heck of a long time when he can only strike the keys with one finger at a time.

Back to the topic:
If you had a choice between an educated illegal from india or an uneducated one from mexico, which do you think would be more productive in our society?
India but then again it is a catch 22 because they would be taking viable jobs away from many legal citizens.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:38 PM
 
92 posts, read 39,068 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo-me View Post
That's right, you're violating his free speech. And besides, it takes a heck of a long time when he can only strike the keys with one finger at a time.

Back to the topic:
If you had a choice between an educated illegal from india or an uneducated one from mexico, which do you think would be more productive in our society?
productivity is subjective. if the indian becomes a stockbroker and the mexican becomes a farmhand, then i would cast my vote to the mexican. why? because i see more nobility in someone who gets their hands dirty to help the growth of food as opposed to some rich jerk who gets fat off inflation tax.
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