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So you are saying a bill could be passed all the way through the Arizona Senate that didn't catch on to that profiling reality, and a separate House bill had to amend the oversight before it would go into effect?...
I think you've better defined what SB1070 was intended to be by the Arizona Senate than I could do within several paragraphs...
Authorities profile all the time to enforce laws, whether or not they do is up to the officer or the department he/she is part of. What law specifically bans profiling while enforcing it? If a law doesn't specifically ban it, is it an oversight? I don't think that was the intention of 1070. If that was the motivation, they didn't need to pass 1070 to be able to do that. Federal laws don't specifically ban it and federal authorities (border agaents) do it all the time.
The intent had nothing to do with what critics were complaining about, that's why the house passed 2162 immediately following passage of 1070 to satisfy the concerns critics had by clarifying and actually banning profiling (even though that wording is not necessary in other laws)....to show that profiling was not the intent of the law.
What difference does any of that make though, the fact is 2162 was passed within days of passing 1070 and it's ignored. People still talk about the possibility authorities will use racial profiling while enforcing 1070 even 2162 amends 1070 and specifically bans it.
A l l o f t h i s i s s o o f f t a r g e t a n d n o t e q u i v a l e n t. S t u d y h i s t o r y , i n s t e a d o f o f f e r i n g u n g r o u n d e d a r g u m e n t s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyyo
So first of all I'm going to state my position against this law. It essentially lets you racial profile freely without any sort of reprimand. Don't think about the illegal immigrants who will be affected by this law. Think of the all the legal, law abiding immigrants and citizens who will be rounded up to collectively spend countless nights and weekends in jails whilst waiting for their papers to be delivered to police from family members. Think of the society those legal immigrants who are of foreign descent will live in, one where they always have to carry papers, always are watching their back, and always are in fear of arrest, especially when those who happen to not share their skin color would be allowed to walk freely without the same requirements.
Its easy to support or be indifferent about a law when they are coming for other people. However, the fact of the matter is, if the practice continues, eventually they will come for you as the Pastor Nimoeller so clearly said (about nazi germany):
"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me"
However, the reason the law must fall is quite simple. Foreign policy is the federal governments department and immigration falls under the federal governments jurisdiction. This sort of law is akin to Arizona blacklisting german imports, or refusing to accept iranian citizens or starting a war with north korea. Everyone is pissed off at north korea sure, but its not arizona's right to say "we are tired of the federal government mucking about with that situation and we are finally going to go do something about it". That is usurping powers they do not have. North Korea's actions affects everyone with their saber rattling (just like immigration affects everyone); that doesn't mean arizona can start unilateral policies to take care of the problem.They have representation in the federal government concerning foreign policy; they should use it and stop trying to play dictator.
So first of all I'm going to state my position against this law. It essentially lets you racial profile freely without any sort of reprimand. Don't think about the illegal immigrants who will be affected by this law. Think of the all the legal, law abiding immigrants and citizens who will be rounded up to collectively spend countless nights and weekends in jails whilst waiting for their papers to be delivered to police from family members. Think of the society those legal immigrants who are of foreign descent will live in, one where they always have to carry papers, always are watching their back, and always are in fear of arrest, especially when those who happen to not share their skin color would be allowed to walk freely without the same requirements.
Its easy to support or be indifferent about a law when they are coming for other people. However, the fact of the matter is, if the practice continues, eventually they will come for you as the Pastor Nimoeller so clearly said (about nazi germany):
"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me"
However, the reason the law must fall is quite simple. Foreign policy is the federal governments department and immigration falls under the federal governments jurisdiction. This sort of law is akin to Arizona blacklisting german imports, or refusing to accept iranian citizens or starting a war with north korea. Everyone is pissed off at north korea sure, but its not arizona's right to say "we are tired of the federal government mucking about with that situation and we are finally going to go do something about it". That is usurping powers they do not have. North Korea's actions affects everyone with their saber rattling (just like immigration affects everyone); that doesn't mean arizona can start unilateral policies to take care of the problem.They have representation in the federal government concerning foreign policy; they should use it and stop trying to play dictator.
Racial profiling is against the law and it was never the intent of sb1070 either so you are just spouting the pro-illegal alien propaganda. Anyone legally in this country is required to carry the proper ID on them so if they leave it at home it's their own fault. Why should their family members have to deliver it to them? Skin color has nothing to do with any of this. Nazi Germany, indeed!
States do and should have the right to protect their own borders and you are going to be sadly disappointed when the Supreme Court rules that way.
Last edited by chicagonut; 04-26-2012 at 07:05 AM..
What gets me is how everyone talks about SB 1070 as though the house bill that amends it (HB 2162) doesn't even exist. HB 2162 was passed by the house and signed by the governor within days of passing and signing SB 1070. Critics of SB 1070 complained that the law would allow police to use racial profiling when enforcing the law because the law did not specifically ban it (even though it's generally not specifically addressed in other laws either). HB 2162 clarifies those concerns and specifically addresses racial profiling as being illegal when enforcing the law.
Thanks for posting this. This should set the defenders of illegal aliens straight on what is in the law. It won't stop them from making false claims though. Their agenda trumps everything.
So you are saying a bill could be passed all the way through the Arizona Senate that didn't catch on to that profiling reality, and a separate House bill had to amend the oversight before it would go into effect?...
I think you've better defined what SB1070 was intended to be by the Arizona Senate than I could do within several paragraphs...
It was just amended for clarification because of the sympathizers to illegal aliens are that hateful as to insinuate that LE would resort to that. It wasn't an oversight. As was stated, even though racial profiling isn't specifically mentioned in regards to the enforcement of other laws it is well known that it is against the law.
Authorities profile all the time to enforce laws, whether or not they do is up to the officer or the department he/she is part of. What law specifically bans profiling while enforcing it? If a law doesn't specifically ban it, is it an oversight? I don't think that was the intention of 1070. If that was the motivation, they didn't need to pass 1070 to be able to do that. Federal laws don't specifically ban it and federal authorities (border agaents) do it all the time.
The intent had nothing to do with what critics were complaining about, that's why the house passed 2162 immediately following passage of 1070 to satisfy the concerns critics had by clarifying and actually banning profiling (even though that wording is not necessary in other laws)....to show that profiling was not the intent of the law.
What difference does any of that make though, the fact is 2162 was passed within days of passing 1070 and it's ignored. People still talk about the possibility authorities will use racial profiling while enforcing 1070 even 2162 amends 1070 and specifically bans it.
They would not catch any criminals if they did not profile
It was just amended for clarification because of the sympathizers to illegal aliens are that hateful as to insinuate that LE would resort to that. It wasn't an oversight. As was stated, even though racial profiling isn't specifically mentioned in regards to the enforcement of other laws it is well known that it is against the law.
Additionally, I am still waiting to hear when "Mexican" or "Latino" became a race vs an ethnic desigination.
I, as a U.S. citizen, am "legally in this country", and not required to carry proper ID on me at all times...
More specifically, as a U.S. citizen, I am not required to prove my citizenship on demand to law enforcement or the Border Patrol...
You drive drunk & crash into my car.
I demand your insurance, ID & who you say you are as a citizen who wrecked my car.
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