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Old 09-25-2007, 02:11 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,053,512 times
Reputation: 382

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
But how much do they add? Any stats?
They add crime, depreciating home values, hospitals going bankrupt, lower quality of education in the schools.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,694,959 times
Reputation: 2086
i have added stats numerous times on here about how we have a deficit of at least 10 billion a year due to illegals. And this is on a federal level it doesnt even begin to touch how much the states are down. And the fact that the illegals send a good portion of money to Mexico instead of spending it here, they add very little otherwise we wouldnt have a DEFICIT!!!
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
185 posts, read 319,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
But how much do they add? Any stats?
Myth: Illegal immigrants contribute greatly to the American economy.

Fact: So-called statistics supporting this myth are typically a deceptive amalgam of statistics and supposition arranged to conceal an undeniable truth. Consider, for instance, this statement from the ACLU paper Immigrants and the Economy (2002): “Immigrants pay more than $90 billion in taxes every year and receive only $5 billion in welfare. Without their contributions to the public treasury, the economy would suffer enormous losses.” If 32.5 million immigrants (the total of legal and illegal immigrants, according to the recent U.S. Census figures) really pay $90 billion in taxes, then they pay half the taxes the average native-born American pays. Note too that the ACLU combines both legal and illegal immigrants into its statistic. Most taxes paid by immigrants are paid by legal immigrants. Illegal immigrants often pay little or no taxes because many of them are working “under the table” in the underground, cash-based economy.

Welfare is a term limited to only a few federal subsidy programs, and the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) notes: “Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant.” CIS estimates that the total net cost of illegal immigration is an annual drain on the government of $11-22 billion annually.

Myth vs. Fact at United for A Sovereign America (USA)

It's estimated that 40% of the illegals in LA work for cash under the table. In 2006 $23 billion was sent to Mexico in remittances, $65 billion if you count all of south America. I think that money would have done a lot of good in the U.S.

Out of 30,000,000 illegals only about 7,000,000 are working. 23,000,000 people with no identity or multiple false identities laying around doing nothing but loitering, drinking looking for more freebies and squirting out anchor babies that us tax payers take care of for the next 18 years, not to mention the cost of the birth.

There is not one good thing that comes out of illegal immigration. Areas where they congregate turn to crap. I don't need any reports for this, I've seen the disrespect, destruction and racism from the illegals first hand.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
[quote=Arizona Annie;1580895]Mach50Thunderdart has been remarkably reserved on this thread. As some of you already know because you have experienced it as well as I have, he will soon call you all racists and maybe even reveal he is Mexican-American

Mach50 is an Eamon de Valera 'Hispanic'------like the former president of Ireland; one of his parents is of Irish heritage.

de Valera was born in the USA to an Irish woman who immigrated back to her country------his father was evidently a Spaniard.

I know: calling a Latino 'Spanish' is not as offensive as referring to the latter as a Mexican.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:49 PM
 
547 posts, read 1,044,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Mach50 is an Eamon de Valera 'Hispanic'------like the former president of Ireland; one of his parents is of Irish heritage.

de Valera was born in the USA to an Irish woman who immigrated back to her country------his father was evidently a Spaniard.

I know: calling a Latino 'Spanish' is not as offensive as referring to the latter as a Mexican.
I knew Mach had said his mother was Irish, but I didn't know his father was from Spain. Then if he was born here, why would he have called himself a Mexican American? Maybe I'm just tired but I don't get it. Or are you saying "Eamon de Valera Hispanic" is used for any person of Irish and any Hispanic heritage?

My mother is of Norwegian heritage and my father is basically a mutt , but the biggest percentage is German. I am an American who cannot understand any American identifying themselves as anything else. To me it suggests loyalty to another country besides America, especially if the other country comes first like "Mexican-American". For example, I don't feel a need to defend Norway when someone says something derogatory about it or it's people, (I really enjoy a good Ole joke when I hear one too, but not the dirty ones ) but when someone who is not an American speaks poorly about America and/or it's people, I can be fierce. Even if they are correct.

Thanks for the interesting information ArizonaBear. Let me know which is correct of my interpretations of your information o.k.? I tried to look it up but it just talked about the man himself and not the use of the term to describe people of Irish and Hispanic heritage.
Have a great evening.
Annie
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:08 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
It's not about race or wealth its about culture. People want to be around people who are like themselves. They feel more secure when they are surrounded by people who think and act as they do. As neghborhoods age, the culture changes, people who used to feel safe and comfortable no longer do. The problem is magnified when you have unrestained immigration as the new immigrants establish whole neghborhoods where they maintain their old culture and language instead of assimilating into the new culture. The problem is that many people living in the U.S. now do not really want to be American citizens, they just want the fruits of being a citizen. Being a citizen means taking ownership in your country and doing the things necessary to make it a better place. Unfortunatly we have a growing number of freeloaders and a declining number of citizens.
i love being an american. i have lived many years out of the country and was so glad to get back. but i must confess i am not very much like my neighbors. i mean i have the means, money talent smarts, but i am not very much like them.
for one thing i juggle and unicycle really well and play pretty good clarinet.
well i will go ahead and say it, i am a clown.
and well, they are not. i mean they have kids and and family and all and that. i do not. so that makes kind of not like them. and all i have is a fish (and actually he just died) so i am not very much like them at all.
and if you get right down to it, i dont especially like clowns. i know what you are thinking, its terrible. i mean a little bit of clowning goes a long way, know what i mean?
but i am one, so i suppose i should be tolerant. anyway i was on track with bout 50% of what you said but then i fell off the bike, forgive the pun.


stephen s
san diego ca
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:43 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,470,148 times
Reputation: 5288
This is scary ArizonaBear and Annie you know too much. Actually you were both close, my mother is Mexican and father is Irish.

I have no idea why hyphenating the heritage is causing such a stir, besides using it to try and discredit my allegiance to America maybe? My father would definitely call himself Irish-American, my mother would say she is Mexican-American...I am of course American but I am proud of my heritage. Italian-Americans just say they are Italian, same with Hebrew for example.

I think I am being miss-understood here:

First, I hate none of you, seriously, I can't think of anyone in the world I would hate, definitely not someone from Arizona.

Second, you have me all wrong about defending Mexico. I am just very pro-immigration, but I never said I am pro-illegal either, there is a difference. However my point has been: I think many Americans are using the illegal Mexicans as a scapegoat for failure in 2 wars, housing market, terrorists attacks and poorly elected officials.

So personally I have a different outlook on illegals and don't enjoy witnessing the racist bi-product of singling out Mexicans as the source of all illegal disfunction in this nation. If you are going to take a stand against illegals make sure to bust that Web StartUp and IT Support Center, not just the farms and construction sites.

Third, the reason I was issuing the race cards so much in the past, well, is because I have read a lot of racist remarks on these boards towards Hispanics. Now I must admit, that seems to be improving as of the last week and now we are starting to really concentrate on the debate of immigration.

I apologize if I have avoided some of your questions, I am only 1 person and there are many here in the anti-illegal stance, firing off questions and retorts.

Oh and ArizonaBear I think Eamon de Valera was Cuban/Irish.

Last edited by Mach50; 09-25-2007 at 11:53 PM..
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Trivia here:

Jose Gonzalez the musician as Swedish (his parents are from Argentina)

Michael Portillo, former Defence Minister is an Englishman (father from Spain)

Alfred Molina, actor too is a Brit (his dad from Spain as well)

Dhani Harrison, English as well (him mother is a Mexican-American, father George Harrison of the Beatles fames)

Emile Perez, the police chief of France

One gets the idea........many 'Anglos' have 'Hispanic' roots but being born/raised out of country nullifies it, legally.

Hell: Mary, Queen of Scots, her mother was a Spaniard.

It is fascinating how the genes fall

Final point: apparent most so-called 'WASPs' from the British Isles (including Ireland) trace their genetic heritage back to Spain thousands of years ago.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:31 AM
 
Location: the best coast
718 posts, read 2,440,945 times
Reputation: 213
Race or culture, I think its a bit of both.
On the Race side:
There are things that we as Americans value:
An honest days work
Abiding by the law
Having an education

Go to virtually any mexican community in any major city in the usa and you will find these communites lacking-for a better word- these types of values

Than you have culture:
The playing of mariachi music at all hours, regardless of how close your neighbors are
Drinking and driving
Promoting masculine/machismo culture ie: physical contfrontation is the only way to solve problems


you see where im going here
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:40 AM
 
547 posts, read 1,044,668 times
Reputation: 227
An apology to Mach50Thunderdart ~
I would just like to publicly apologize to you for coming at you personally in an earlier post on this thread. I shouldn't have attacked you. I was just so frustrated by what I felt you were doing from thread to thread. It was not my place to call you out like that and I am sorry I did it. It was especially inappropriate because as I said myself, you were being remarkably reserved on this thread. Yac (moderator) asked me how it was benefitting the discusion (my post) and I realized it would do quite the opposite. (some times a good shake can do that) Anyway, I am sorry. You and I will probably never agree on some points, but on others we do. Have a great day Mach!
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