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Old 06-12-2012, 01:20 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,761,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Disclaimer: I have no evidence to support this, just strictly my own opinion.

Before we start, can we tone done the emotional rhetoric please? I know most posters on here have strong feelings on the subject, but I want a more rational/logical discussion, not feelings or emotion aka irrationality, thanks.

I've been thinking about it, and if we take into account the claims made by the anti-illegal immigration advocates that illegals and their anchor babies are ethno-centrics and are proud to be Mexican and not American, why would they stay here if their homeland improves tremendously? If unemployment in Mexico remains low for the next 10 years or so, and job pay really rises and a large, solid middle class akin to the developed world approaches, and Mexico is a medium to low crime country, why would they really stay? The US is stagnating, jobs are not coming back, especially manufacturing jobs, and legal immigration to the US has slowed down according to the 2010 Census.

I just don't see the reason why whites would become a minority in 2050, and the people who usually side with the Mexicans say the birth rate is declining in Mexico. The longer term seems to favor Mexico more than us, I think we've grown about as much as we can do, and all this "growth" we've seen since the 90s seems to have been fueled by the expansion of credit, not real money. Mexico is ripe for proper expansion without relying on private debt like Americans are.
"Race-wise" I think it couldn't matter less. The USA will see more and more race mixing - black and white for example -- the USA is becoming more "mestizo".

Their country is improving BECAUSE the impoverished with the very high birth rates have relocated to the USA, Mexico doesn't want them back and unemployment rates in Mexico have been much lower than those of the USA all along. Mexico keeps it's middle class educated types, we're taking the uneducated, the chronic impoverished class.

The whole idea that the USA must continue it's free fall so that we're worse off than a third world country so that Mexicans will begin to return home is a problem because that means Americans must suffer. And that until we are worse off, the Mexicans can just keep on arriving until it does, and then just as you would expect them to, they will run back to cash in on what their own country will give them.

 
Old 06-12-2012, 01:30 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,761,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Mexico is at the forefront of the drug war for a very simple reason: It borders the largest consumer of illegal drugs, the United States. It was always inevitable that the border would have these issues, and most of the actual fighting is because the Mexican government's war on the cartels leaves a lot of drug territory open and the cartels not broken up end up fighting over it. It got brutal because there was more of a vacuum.

However, to suggest that things aren't improving "by any means" is nuts and ignorant of the country as whole. Mexico has one of the few growing middle classes (the US does not have that), for example. Mexico also has low unemployment and didn't suffer through the economic crash the same way the US and other parts of the world did, so it has recovered faster.
Yes, of course Mexico has lower unemployment rates -- it dumps it's unemployed -- by the millions -- on us. Imagine if we could have our chronic unemployed and welfare class relocate to another country.

Of course Mexico and the other Central American countries benefit enormously by losing their large uneducated and indigent class to the USA.

Another problem is that these territories being fought over by the drug cartels are the very territories that provide us so many illegals. Maybe Mexico should have made reforms that would have kept these people home and building infrastructure, etc -- instead it encouraged them to pack up and leave, abandon young children who grew up with no parents, many raised on the streets and instability has grown in these regions.
 
Old 06-12-2012, 08:11 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,104,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
A lot. Even Africa is improving, and so are the Central American countries. Panama is the first Central American country forecasted to join the ranks of the developed world this decade. Also, Mexico doesn't have a free trade agreement with China or a "favored partner" status like the US. Mexico has a much more protectionist economy than we do



The birth rate in Mexico is declining. They will reach subreplacement rate in the near future. The more it develops, the less babies it will have on average. Everyone thinks Mexico is a country with a birth rate of like 10 when it's closer to 2-3. Of all population growth trends, the African population is the only one that is seen to expand into the future, with all others declining
I recently posted 300 illegals was seen crossing our border in 1 day.

How is that declining?
 
Old 06-12-2012, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,791 posts, read 12,767,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes, of course Mexico has lower unemployment rates -- it dumps it's unemployed -- by the millions -- on us. Imagine if we could have our chronic unemployed and welfare class relocate to another country.

Of course Mexico and the other Central American countries benefit enormously by losing their large uneducated and indigent class to the USA.

Another problem is that these territories being fought over by the drug cartels are the very territories that provide us so many illegals. Maybe Mexico should have made reforms that would have kept these people home and building infrastructure, etc -- instead it encouraged them to pack up and leave, abandon young children who grew up with no parents, many raised on the streets and instability has grown in these regions.
Unless you have any sort of data that backs up the statement that the only reason Mexico has lower unemployment is because they have shipped all theunemployed to the US, then this claim needs to die right now. Just becaue you think it's true does not make it so, and repeating something you made up over and over again does not make it true either.

This link shows Mexico's unemployment rate by year since 1980. Mexico Unemployment rate - Economy It also contains a lot of other data on world nations. Here are a few examples:

GDP Real Growth Rate
Mexico: 5.5%
United States: 2.8%

Public Debt as a % of GDP
US: 58.9%
Mexico: 41.5%

% of Population below poverty line
Mexico: 18.2%
United States: 12.0%

External Debt
United States: $13.98 Trillion
Mexico: $212 Billion

So Mexico has faster economic growth, lower debt, lower unemployment, but contrary to your claim, has higher poverty levels. Mexico shipped all their unemployed poor to the United States, but still has more poor. Strange. The good news is that with the economic growth and relatively low debt compared to the US, Mexico's middle class is growing. In the long run, this will do more about illegal immigration than any number of walls built or terrible laws written by the US.
 
Old 06-12-2012, 10:06 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,761,562 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Unless you have any sort of data that backs up the statement that the only reason Mexico has lower unemployment is because they have shipped all theunemployed to the US, then this claim needs to die right now. Just becaue you think it's true does not make it so, and repeating something you made up over and over again does not make it true either.

This link shows Mexico's unemployment rate by year since 1980. Mexico Unemployment rate - Economy It also contains a lot of other data on world nations. Here are a few examples:

GDP Real Growth Rate
Mexico: 5.5%
United States: 2.8%

Public Debt as a % of GDP
US: 58.9%
Mexico: 41.5%

% of Population below poverty line
Mexico: 18.2%
United States: 12.0%

External Debt
United States: $13.98 Trillion
Mexico: $212 Billion

So Mexico has faster economic growth, lower debt, lower unemployment, but contrary to your claim, has higher poverty levels. Mexico shipped all their unemployed poor to the United States, but still has more poor. Strange. The good news is that with the economic growth and relatively low debt compared to the US, Mexico's middle class is growing. In the long run, this will do more about illegal immigration than any number of walls built or terrible laws written by the US.
If the USA could send away 60 million of it's poorest, most illiterate, unskilled people, our statistics would look better -- I say 60 millions because our population is higher than Mexico's.

Yes, ridding your nation of it's poorest classes, the most needy will benefit the economy. Mexico's middle classes aren't facing higher taxes to provide the food stamps, Medicaid, WIC.

You certainly do not see the Mexican politicians trying to entice their people back -- even if Fox tried to sell us on the idea of taking them because they were so great for an economy -- well if he thought they were so great, then why was he trying to get them to leave?
 
Old 06-12-2012, 10:14 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,761,562 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
I recently posted 300 illegals was seen crossing our border in 1 day.

How is that declining?
I don't think the numbers are declining yet -- but now even California politicians are looking at cutting welfare handouts and that may affect the rate of illegal crossing.

I agree with the OP that the so-called "hispanic" takeover may not happen because as the above posters shows, the USA is almost surpassing Mexico now in poverty and has surpassed Mexico all along in unemployment rates.

I don't believe very massive and unlimited immigration can continue because of the great damage it's doing to this country -- but by then can the damage ever be undone? The "pan-hispanic" thing also has it's limits. I don't really see all that much that long-time Americans with Spanish last names have in common with fresh over the border impoverished illegals, nor are Colombians just like Central Americans & Mexicans and so on.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 05:04 AM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,141,250 times
Reputation: 11578
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I don't think the numbers are declining yet -- but now even California politicians are looking at cutting welfare handouts and that may affect the rate of illegal crossing.

I agree with the OP that the so-called "hispanic" takeover may not happen because as the above posters shows, the USA is almost surpassing Mexico now in poverty and has surpassed Mexico all along in unemployment rates.

I don't believe very massive and unlimited immigration can continue because of the great damage it's doing to this country -- but by then can the damage ever be undone? The "pan-hispanic" thing also has it's limits. I don't really see all that much that long-time Americans with Spanish last names have in common with fresh over the border impoverished illegals, nor are Colombians just like Central Americans & Mexicans and so on.
Exactly. You can live a life off government for only so long. If the Mexicans really wanted to do that, they'd be making their way to Venezuela or Cuba, not the U.S., which have more generous benefits than we do. I want Mexico to have the same standard of living than we do, in fact, better than us. That's why I hope Mexico continues to go on the track to development. Political corruption is the crutch that Mexico is standing on. Quite frankly, I think it would be good for Mexico to elect the PRD. Mexico still has an aristocratic society despite not being a monarchy of any sort, plus they would probably establish a welfare state in Mexico and that would entice some illegals back.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 06:33 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,660,790 times
Reputation: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Exactly. You can live a life off government for only so long. If the Mexicans really wanted to do that, they'd be making their way to Venezuela or Cuba, not the U.S., which have more generous benefits than we do. I want Mexico to have the same standard of living than we do, in fact, better than us. That's why I hope Mexico continues to go on the track to development. Political corruption is the crutch that Mexico is standing on. Quite frankly, I think it would be good for Mexico to elect the PRD. Mexico still has an aristocratic society despite not being a monarchy of any sort, plus they would probably establish a welfare state in Mexico and that would entice some illegals back.

Not too sure about Cuba providing more generous benefits than the USA. Otherwise a good post.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 07:43 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,104,934 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I don't think the numbers are declining yet -- but now even California politicians are looking at cutting welfare handouts and that may affect the rate of illegal crossing.

I agree with the OP that the so-called "hispanic" takeover may not happen because as the above posters shows, the USA is almost surpassing Mexico now in poverty and has surpassed Mexico all along in unemployment rates.

I don't believe very massive and unlimited immigration can continue because of the great damage it's doing to this country -- but by then can the damage ever be undone? The "pan-hispanic" thing also has it's limits. I don't really see all that much that long-time Americans with Spanish last names have in common with fresh over the border impoverished illegals, nor are Colombians just like Central Americans & Mexicans and so on.

I think it will take a major crises for our politicians to wake up. Such as the crises happening in Europe or maybe worse.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 07:50 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,158,884 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I don't think the numbers are declining yet -- but now even California politicians are looking at cutting welfare handouts and that may affect the rate of illegal crossing.

I agree with the OP that the so-called "hispanic" takeover may not happen because as the above posters shows, the USA is almost surpassing Mexico now in poverty and has surpassed Mexico all along in unemployment rates.

I don't believe very massive and unlimited immigration can continue because of the great damage it's doing to this country -- but by then can the damage ever be undone? The "pan-hispanic" thing also has it's limits. I don't really see all that much that long-time Americans with Spanish last names have in common with fresh over the border impoverished illegals, nor are Colombians just like Central Americans & Mexicans and so on.
Unfortunately, a lot of the damage has already been done and can't be undone. By that I mean there have been far too many anchor babies already born on our soil. Even if birthright citizenship is changed it won't be retroactive. They will be able to sponsor their parents and other relatives in their homelands to be able to come here once they reach adulthood.
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