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Old 06-18-2012, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,164 posts, read 1,278,215 times
Reputation: 387

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Disclaimer: I have no evidence to support this, just strictly my own opinion.

Before we start, can we tone done the emotional rhetoric please? I know most posters on here have strong feelings on the subject, but I want a more rational/logical discussion, not feelings or emotion aka irrationality, thanks.

I've been thinking about it, and if we take into account the claims made by the anti-illegal immigration advocates that illegals and their anchor babies are ethno-centrics and are proud to be Mexican and not American, why would they stay here if their homeland improves tremendously? If unemployment in Mexico remains low for the next 10 years or so, and job pay really rises and a large, solid middle class akin to the developed world approaches, and Mexico is a medium to low crime country, why would they really stay? The US is stagnating, jobs are not coming back, especially manufacturing jobs, and legal immigration to the US has slowed down according to the 2010 Census.

I just don't see the reason why whites would become a minority in 2050, and the people who usually side with the Mexicans say the birth rate is declining in Mexico. The longer term seems to favor Mexico more than us, I think we've grown about as much as we can do, and all this "growth" we've seen since the 90s seems to have been fueled by the expansion of credit, not real money. Mexico is ripe for proper expansion without relying on private debt like Americans are.
I think Mexico already has a sizable middle class at 56% (using 2011 figures) being either middle class or upper class (most of that percentage is likely middle class). I'm not sure how that compares to other fully developed nations, the problem is the other 44% who are still paid rather low wages. Hardly anyone there is starving, but they need better wages to have the same type of material wealth that people in the U.S. and the other 56% of Mexico enjoy.

 
Old 06-21-2012, 10:34 AM
 
4,990 posts, read 4,456,969 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I have a novel idea. Pass a law reforming welfare benefits for new families so that only one child may qualify for benefits (excepting ones already alive) and build 2 bedroom public housing units only about 600-700 sq. ft. in size. If they have a second child after the deadline, that child will not be able to increase benefits for the family, so it will be that family's entire responsibility for that child, not the welfare office's. That's common sense reform without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. With regards to school, families starting with the Kindergarten class of 2018 will only be able to claim free or reduced school lunch for one child for the entire K-12 duration. that way, the benefits that people might need one day are still there, but it's not encouraging more breeding. It will have an effect, as there should be absolutely no reason why more than 1 kid should be claimed for benefits. Of course, this just addresses the so-called chronically poor, not the acute poor like the person who was laid off and can't get another comparable job.
Pretty good compromise.

The only problem is in this highly polarized & emotional environment, it would challenging for the idea to get through the haze of rage, a panic of the mind that seems to be becoming the norm among Americans.
 
Old 06-22-2012, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,730 posts, read 5,093,401 times
Reputation: 4170
Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
Mexico has a huge drug war right now and the government is losing that war. They also have rampant corruption in their military and police force. That country is not improving by any means. If anything it is getting worse whereas most of the rest of Latin America is improving.
General perceptions to the contrary, all of the above views are incorrect. While most of us have been highly critical of Calderon because of his views on immigration, his administration has made major progress against the cartels and have dealt them major blows. Most of the Mexican military are not corrupt, unlike many of the local police forces. By assuming responsibility from the local LE, their armed forces have made progress against the criminals. The Mexican economy is improving in spite of the widespread cartel violence and their other problems. In a rather ironic twist, the Mexican unemployment rate is lower than ours, some illegals are self deporting because they have a better chance at employment back home than in El Norte.

Virtually ignored and little mentioned on CD, the Mexican presidential election in a few days has major bearing on the US as well as Mexico. Enrique Nieto of the PRI is the heavy favorite to win, and is an unknown as to what his policies will be. If he resumes the old corruption and cronyism of the PRI and cuts a deal with the cartels Mexico will continue with its problems. If he keeps up the war against the gangs and goes forward with other badly needed reforms Mexico will make progress. If he does not, then the US will continue to see the stream of illegals continue.
 
Old 06-22-2012, 10:08 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
General perceptions to the contrary, all of the above views are incorrect. While most of us have been highly critical of Calderon because of his views on immigration, his administration has made major progress against the cartels and have dealt them major blows. Most of the Mexican military are not corrupt, unlike many of the local police forces. By assuming responsibility from the local LE, their armed forces have made progress against the criminals. The Mexican economy is improving in spite of the widespread cartel violence and their other problems. In a rather ironic twist, the Mexican unemployment rate is lower than ours, some illegals are self deporting because they have a better chance at employment back home than in El Norte.

Virtually ignored and little mentioned on CD, the Mexican presidential election in a few days has major bearing on the US as well as Mexico. Enrique Nieto of the PRI is the heavy favorite to win, and is an unknown as to what his policies will be. If he resumes the old corruption and cronyism of the PRI and cuts a deal with the cartels Mexico will continue with its problems. If he keeps up the war against the gangs and goes forward with other badly needed reforms Mexico will make progress. If he does not, then the US will continue to see the stream of illegals continue.
I don't think that most Mexicans coming here illegally are doing so to flee the drug cartels.
 
Old 06-22-2012, 12:11 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,298,472 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I don't think that most Mexicans coming here illegally are doing so to flee the drug cartels.
They are not! and we know it. I have friends who use to live in Mexico, they do not agree with above post, then seem to think, every one in Mexico, is on the take.
 
Old 06-22-2012, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,730 posts, read 5,093,401 times
Reputation: 4170
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I don't think that most Mexicans coming here illegally are doing so to flee the drug cartels.
They have come here mostly for economic reasons, that we all agree on, but the violence does matter, as it hinders the stability and developement of the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
They are not! and we know it. I have friends who use to live in Mexico, they do not agree with above post, then seem to think, every one in Mexico, is on the take.
An unfortunate but mostly true fact of life in Mexico. "La Mordida", the bite, ie, a bribe, widespread corruption in most segments of Mexican society, is something that Mexico will have to eliminate, or at least lessen. Realistically, it is so ingrained, so pervasive, that it may take decades to eliminate, or at least reduce it to the point to where it is no longer a major factor.
 
Old 06-22-2012, 01:08 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
They have come here mostly for economic reasons, that we all agree on, but the violence does matter, as it hinders the stability and developement of the country.


An unfortunate but mostly true fact of life in Mexico. "La Mordida", the bite, ie, a bribe, widespread corruption in most segments of Mexican society, is something that Mexico will have to eliminate, or at least lessen. Realistically, it is so ingrained, so pervasive, that it may take decades to eliminate, or at least reduce it to the point to where it is no longer a major factor.
What is frightening is having so many of them here that grew up in that kind of culture. Perhaps that is why so many of them feel no remorse about breaking the law and coming here illegally.
 
Old 06-22-2012, 02:17 PM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,659,923 times
Reputation: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
What is frightening is having so many of them here that grew up in that kind of culture. Perhaps that is why so many of them feel no remorse about breaking the law and coming here illegally.

Laws in Mexico are considered suggestions and not absolutes. Our laws appear unreasonable and unfair. So they are broken.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,164 posts, read 1,278,215 times
Reputation: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
They have come here mostly for economic reasons, that we all agree on, but the violence does matter, as it hinders the stability and developement of the country.


An unfortunate but mostly true fact of life in Mexico. "La Mordida", the bite, ie, a bribe, widespread corruption in most segments of Mexican society, is something that Mexico will have to eliminate, or at least lessen. Realistically, it is so ingrained, so pervasive, that it may take decades to eliminate, or at least reduce it to the point to where it is no longer a major factor.
You make it sound like all of Mexico is suffering from drug violence which is not the case; it's only a handful of states. I believe Wikipedia has a map showing the affected areas in red that you can check out.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 06:52 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,296,542 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Springs Gator View Post
Laws in Mexico are considered suggestions and not absolutes. Our laws appear unreasonable and unfair. So they are broken.
I've heard that said. Which is NO excuse to pull that crap here in the US. What pisses me off is when an illegal alien gets caught and cries over being caught. Sheesh!
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