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Old 06-16-2012, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,589 posts, read 10,317,990 times
Reputation: 9271

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
I just want to offer sympathy to all those looking for work who will not get jobs because those who are here illegally get them instead. It is not right and it shouldn't be happening to you. I hope for a miracle in this country to turn this injustice around.

President Obama, what you did today is not right. You need to rethink what your oath of office promised and send all illegals home. Ignoring our laws will bring no good to the illegals or this nation. You were wrong to do what you did today.
Blame the business elite who got so greedy that they got rid of middle class workers who made 20 bucks an hour...sent the jobs to China and India where they could get slave labor- all in the name of more profit and un-mitigated greed

COMBINE that with allowing migrants and immigrants to invade your nation- I can see the problem- You have to understand that people who install presidents expect the president to do their bidding- It's the super rich who are getting richer while you get more poor that control the president...Obama is just not interested in common America..nor are your elite- YOU have been betrayed and those in control are treasonous....face this and carry on and do your best- DON'T expect any crumbs to fall from the masters table YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

 
Old 06-16-2012, 08:39 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,122,907 times
Reputation: 12779
Quote:
Originally Posted by ListenToYourHeart View Post
I think it's way less than 1%.
No one is jealous and it doesn't change the circumstances.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 08:41 PM
 
56 posts, read 77,615 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freespiritbutterfly View Post

I am a legal immigrant. And I feel just as American as everyone else. I am from Holland and came to the USA when I was 3. I consider myself an "American - Dutch".
It's so nice to see another Dutch person.

Sommige van deze mensen zijn harteloos.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 08:43 PM
 
833 posts, read 1,416,462 times
Reputation: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by freespiritbutterfly View Post
I don't think he will be buying 800,000 votes. These people can't actually vote so to speak. This law means they can just work. Besides, Obama is definitely (and obviously) losing votes with this law. I think that there is definitely an employment problem in America. But I think it would be wrong to just kick out all of the illegal immigrants who came here at a very early age and have been living here for many years just because other people can't find jobs. Firstly, if they were minors who came to America illegally, it is the fault of the parents. The children shouldn't be ridiculed as it wasn't their choice. I know that many Americans are furious at these illegal immigrants who came to the USA at a VERY early age. How could you be angry at someone that came to the USA when they were just 3?

I am a legal immigrant. And I feel just as American as everyone else. I am from Holland and came to the USA when I was 3. I consider myself an "American - Dutch". I would be absolutely devestated if, for some reason, I was removed from the USA just so blood American people could get jobs easily. I would be waving goodbye to the country I know and love, my friends and perhaps my family. I have never found it too hard to get jobs. I have found it tremendously difficult to get GOOD jobs however. But I know that I will get there in the end as I am focussed.

I know that it's hard at the moment to get jobs. But letís not get angry and start pointing our finger at all types of people. Understand that America is an "immigrant" culture in itself.

I think what Obama did was the right thing to do, morally. Perhaps this law needs more refining, however. I think the "minor" should be under 14, not 16. And I think that they need to be in America under that age for at least 5 years fewer than 10 and 6 years over the age of 14. They should also order all the potential immigrants to be granted working rights to prove their age and years living in the united states.

I just think its wrong to kick out young illegal immigrants that have been here for many years, just as I think its wrong that banks have taken away homes from people due to unemployment. Remember that people came to the USA to escape social problems (IE Ireland and the Potato Famine) just as Mexicans are escaping social problems. They are doing it for their family. Perhaps Obama should focus on relations with Mexico to improve the countries social condition.
There are countries where the people are suffering a lot worse/more than Mexico.

That " poor,poor Mexico " doesn't fly with me.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 09:53 PM
 
67 posts, read 123,868 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf fan View Post
There are countries where the people are suffering a lot worse/more than Mexico.

That " poor,poor Mexico " doesn't fly with me.
Of course there are. What I'm getting at is that it's natural for people to want to go to places where they can better themselves. Obviously a 15,000 annual minimum wage sounds a lot better to a Mexican than $1400 (US) per annum in their home country.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 10:27 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,771,013 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymond2 View Post
Lol, ENTITLEMENTS like Corporate BAILOUTS, Insider trading and hiring ILLEGALS off the books?
you mean bailouts that the democrats love so much. Thanks for making my point. How many trillions did obama give in bailiouts? Once again, you defeat your own argument

Quote:
Noone is a slave to the Government.
Now this is hilarious! How many millions absolutely depend on the government for their basic needs? Once again, you have no clue what your talking about.
Quote:
Wealthy Special interest groups OWN the government, that's why they donate SUPER PAC money to the Government.
Thanks again for making my point. You admit that special interest own obama and all the democrats. They own the republicans too. Another failed campign promise

Quote:
It's Government that is a slave to wealthy special interest groups.
Thanks again for making my point. Who is the government?

Quote:
If the government provides extra Unemployment benefits, SS and Medicare... thats not slavery at all.
what would happen if the government stopped giving out these entitlements?
Quote:
These are INSURANCE programs that cost most of us less than we put in so its favorable to us, the people.
Cost most of us less than we put in? What are you saying? People are using way more benefits than what they pay in. That is the problem! Years ago when ss first started, people did live as long as they do now. Not to mention the baby boom generation coming into retirement. The system is broken,. It is bankrupt,hello. What rock have you been under for the last 10 years? Do you even have a clue what is going on. Read once in awhile and try to obtain some knowledge. Incredible. You are a perfect example of people voting who don`t have a clue what is going on. Man, that is scary.


Quote:
Go to a 3rd world country with a government that provides NO benefits for their people... Thats where you find slavery!
Go to a dictatorship led country. The people don`t have freedoms. The government controls their food, shelter,etc. Sound familiar? If you depend on someone or some entity for your basic needs, then you are a slave to them. They have control over your life. You can`t eat without them giving you food. They provide your shelter, your clothes, healthcare, etc. They can take it away at any time and then what would happen to you? Many people in this country are beholden to the government to take care of them. Many abuse the system. They don`t want to work. They would rather have the government take care of them. They have become slaves to the government and just like you, they don`t even realize it. They don`t even realize that the government has them in it`s control. It`s an amazing thing,really. The founding fathers warned specifically about this. The more control you give to them, the less freedoms you have.

Quote:
ALL
Quote:
modern 1st world countries have government programs to provide for their own people in need.
Yes, but the people don`t make a way of life over it. Generation after generation of the same families are held hostage to the government. The government has made them lazy and dependent. So they keep voting for the people who promise them free stuff and that keeps certain people in power. But again, people are totally ignorant of their predicament. They are totally fine with the government controlling them and giving them just enough to get by on. They still have their cell phones, microwaves,cars, 50" tv`s, game consoles,etc. But they are poor.



Quote:
That's why 1st world Western and 1st world Asian countries have human rights and highest standards of living!
I don`t know about Asia`s human rights. But this isn`t about human rights. That`s what the government wants you to believe and I can certainly see they have you sucked in. This is about people abusing the system, breaking laws, and living off of other people.

Quote:
Want to live in a country where there is NO government support programs for their people?
Those countries have a majority population of poor peasants!
You are welcome to move there!
You mean like America was in the the first 200 years of her existence? When people risked life and limb to come here because it was so bad. No, people took care of their own. People and families took care of each other. The government wasn`t created to run people`s lives. It wasn`t created to hand out ss checks, food stamps, housing, and healthcare. Once again you have shown that you have been brainwashed into the entitlement bs and have no idea about history.
You want to talk about poor peasants. Go to a country where the government controls just about everything. You are welcome to move there.

Quote:
In 1st world countries, the government trusts it's own people while providing benefits that are relatively easy to attain.
Who is the government and where does it get money?

Quote:
Communist 3rd world countries which provide benefits require tight government supervision over who those who receive it, which is what Republicans advocate because they don't trust Americans. To Repubs, many Americans are lazy and need the government drug testing & supervising them like a communist big brother to make sure they "behave."
When you rely on other people`s money to take care of you, then those people have a right to know that you deserve the money. Just like working for an employer. They have a right to drug test you and do a criminal background check. When you apply for a loan to a bank, they have the same right to check your history. Why? Because it is their MONEY. IT is their RISK. I suppose you would just loan out money to whoever asked for it without doing any kind of check. So you expect taxpayers to just freely give their money with no accountablility! Again, it`s called freedoms! You can`t have it both ways which is what a lot people like you want. You want to live off of other people`s money but you don`t want to be accountable for it. If you don`t want to be accountable to other people, then work and make your own money. Then you don`t have to worry about it.

Quote:
Oh, and if americans are these worthless lazy people who lives off government entitlements as you Repubs like to portray them... then you just made the PERFECT argument as to why Americans should be REPLACED by new immigrants.. Legal OR Illegal.
It is the working people in this country who are being taken advantage of. They are the ones that keep the country working. The people who refuse to work or take from the pool without putting anything in are the ones who are pulling the country down.
Your post is filled with so much misinformation and ignorance that it is pointless to even debate with you. Not to mention that you defeat your purpose in so many of the points you make. I would suggest that you do some independant reading and try using some free thought and open your mind. You are obviously ignorant of the issues and have no clue. Best of luck to you.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 10:42 PM
 
9,018 posts, read 7,948,202 times
Reputation: 14414
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
I can't believe that I actually agree with the Country Girl. But the law is the law. This is a blatant sellout to the President's election bloc of latinos that must be energized for turnout in Nov. He is doing this just like every other Pres; this heinous act will probably be forgotten by election time. If there is immigration reform, they should make it illegal for them and their children to receive ANY public benefits (Medi-Cal, day care, lowered college tuition rates, cash assistance, etc). Gov't has made it too easy for them and enabled them to brazenly come over here and demand what they want. that is not right and unfair to the native citizens that work and pay taxes here.
It is a blatant sellout & I am appalled.
It is sickening to realize that America does not take care of it's own. I know a woman who owns a home,a husband, a few vehicles, lots of kids & loves to brag about how she crossed the border quite a few years ago, illegally of course. If you think the illegals are only working low paying jobs, think again. That family is taking advantage of everything they can here. I know many Americans that were born here- struggling to just stay afloat. They're trying to work multiple jobs, just to pay bills & feed the kids. There is no help for them, because they have been sold out.
The American Dream.....yeah right
 
Old 06-16-2012, 10:54 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 15,943,293 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by believe007 View Post
It is a blatant sellout & I am appalled.
It is sickening to realize that America does not take care of it's own. I know a woman who owns a home,a husband, a few vehicles, lots of kids & loves to brag about how she crossed the border quite a few years ago, illegally of course. If you think the illegals are only working low paying jobs, think again. That family is taking advantage of everything they can here. I know many Americans that were born here- struggling to just stay afloat. They're trying to work multiple jobs, just to pay bills & feed the kids. There is no help for them, because they have been sold out.
The American Dream.....yeah right
which part of the States are you in? I used to live in SoCal and would always see this kind of sheeat happen.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Out West
20,596 posts, read 15,424,228 times
Reputation: 24158
Quote:
Originally Posted by freespiritbutterfly View Post
I don't think he will be buying 800,000 votes. These people can't actually vote so to speak. This law means they can just work. Besides, Obama is definitely (and obviously) losing votes with this law. I think that there is definitely an employment problem in America. But I think it would be wrong to just kick out all of the illegal immigrants who came here at a very early age and have been living here for many years just because other people can't find jobs. Firstly, if they were minors who came to America illegally, it is the fault of the parents. The children shouldn't be ridiculed as it wasn't their choice. I know that many Americans are furious at these illegal immigrants who came to the USA at a VERY early age. How could you be angry at someone that came to the USA when they were just 3?

I am a legal immigrant. And I feel just as American as everyone else. I am from Holland and came to the USA when I was 3. I consider myself an "American - Dutch". I would be absolutely devestated if, for some reason, I was removed from the USA just so blood American people could get jobs easily. I would be waving goodbye to the country I know and love, my friends and perhaps my family. I have never found it too hard to get jobs. I have found it tremendously difficult to get GOOD jobs however. But I know that I will get there in the end as I am focussed.

I know that it's hard at the moment to get jobs. But letís not get angry and start pointing our finger at all types of people. Understand that America is an "immigrant" culture in itself.

I think what Obama did was the right thing to do, morally. Perhaps this law needs more refining, however. I think the "minor" should be under 14, not 16. And I think that they need to be in America under that age for at least 5 years fewer than 10 and 6 years over the age of 14. They should also order all the potential immigrants to be granted working rights to prove their age and years living in the united states.

I just think its wrong to kick out young illegal immigrants that have been here for many years, just as I think its wrong that banks have taken away homes from people due to unemployment. Remember that people came to the USA to escape social problems (IE Ireland and the Potato Famine) just as Mexicans are escaping social problems. They are doing it for their family. Perhaps Obama should focus on relations with Mexico to improve the countries social condition.
Illegal means they are not here legally. Yes, it is the fault of their parents but they are still here, illegally and need to be returned to their country. They can try for citizenship the legal way as so many other immigrants have done. This is a slap in the face for all immigrants who spent years and money to become citizens, legally.

If you don't pay your bills, you lose your home. That is not "unfair" of the banks. If you don't pay your car payments, you lose your car. It's pretty simple. If you cannot afford that home or car, (such as the person in CA who purchased an $800,000 home on a school bus driver's salary), don't get it. Not paying your bills is not the fault of the bank.

You used the Irish as your example. They fled Ireland to escape the potato famine in the 1850s and 60s. This country did not have welfare until 1935. When those Irish came over, they were NOT draining hard working Americans paychecks to pay their way. THAT is the difference.

This isn't just about 800,000 illegal immigrants being allowed to stay and work here in an environment that doesn't have enough jobs as it is, this is also about the drain on society by illegals. That affects everyone who is here, legally. That is the problem. We don't have enough jobs, means people don't have a lot of money and we want to allow 800,000 illegals to stay here, take those jobs, (and if they are educated at Ivy League schools, they are NOT going to be taking the "low paying jobs that Americans won't do", they are going to take the fricken jobs that Americans are fighting for right now), and we get to pay for their families to stay here. (You think a 16 year old is going to be living here by themselves? NO! Their parents are going to be here, as well. More expenses.)

So, you are here, you are working. Not the best job, you said but you're working. Eventually you're going to find better. Either way, you are being taxed. I bet you look at that check right now and think how wonderful it would be to have some of that tax money instead of the government taking it. Guess where some of that money goes? You worked for it but you have to give it to someone else who is NOT here, legally. If you want to contribute to them of your own free will, go ahead. But don't demand that the rest of us do the same.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 11:42 PM
 
67 posts, read 123,868 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Illegal means they are not here legally. Yes, it is the fault of their parents but they are still here, illegally and need to be returned to their country. They can try for citizenship the legal way as so many other immigrants have done. This is a slap in the face for all immigrants who spent years and money to become citizens, legally.

If you don't pay your bills, you lose your home. That is not "unfair" of the banks. If you don't pay your car payments, you lose your car. It's pretty simple. If you cannot afford that home or car, (such as the person in CA who purchased an $800,000 home on a school bus driver's salary), don't get it. Not paying your bills is not the fault of the bank.

You used the Irish as your example. They fled Ireland to escape the potato famine in the 1850s and 60s. This country did not have welfare until 1935. When those Irish came over, they were NOT draining hard working Americans paychecks to pay their way. THAT is the difference.

This isn't just about 800,000 illegal immigrants being allowed to stay and work here in an environment that doesn't have enough jobs as it is, this is also about the drain on society by illegals. That affects everyone who is here, legally. That is the problem. We don't have enough jobs, means people don't have a lot of money and we want to allow 800,000 illegals to stay here, take those jobs, (and if they are educated at Ivy League schools, they are NOT going to be taking the "low paying jobs that Americans won't do", they are going to take the fricken jobs that Americans are fighting for right now), and we get to pay for their families to stay here. (You think a 16 year old is going to be living here by themselves? NO! Their parents are going to be here, as well. More expenses.)

So, you are here, you are working. Not the best job, you said but you're working. Eventually you're going to find better. Either way, you are being taxed. I bet you look at that check right now and think how wonderful it would be to have some of that tax money instead of the government taking it. Guess where some of that money goes? You worked for it but you have to give it to someone else who is NOT here, legally. If you want to contribute to them of your own free will, go ahead. But don't demand that the rest of us do the same.
Very good argument. I agree. But I am not sure if kicking out illegal immigrants that have been here for years and came here as children is the way to go about this problem. Sure they are taking your jobs. But lets just put things into perspective . . . imagine you were removed from your country and deported to your home country (Mexico) just because your parents had moved to the USA when you were 3. You are 18 now, your mother has passed away, and you can't speak any Spanish, you don't even know your other family that live there. Sure it's not your problem or your country's problem. But I'm sure theres something more morally right that can be done than kicking them out to rot in a country that isn't the home that they know, turning their backs because it's not "their" problem. Like, for example, setting up a programme in Mexico that encourages illegal youth immigrants to work for the US and Mexican government to strengthen govermental relations. Theres a whole lot the government could do like that which will benefit us in the long run. My problem is that many people are angry at the immigrants that have been here since they were very young, when they were only minors when they came to the USA. So how can they be held responsible?
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