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Old 06-19-2012, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Yes, asking 734 people is indicative of how the rest of America feels.
A scientific poll with a given margin of error, while not always 100% accurate, is still 1000x better than reading this forum or asking your friends.

And yeah, it's not exactly shocking that many of you refuse to believe it. Extremists rarely engage with reality.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pear Martini View Post
Also from the interviews of kids (18-20 years old) who would be impacted by this all seem to be dreaming to go to college....how can this harm the economy?

Any economist would say this will be beneficial to economic growth.
No economists won't, most say that those DREAMies who go to college merely lower there number from -$89K owed to the American taxpayer over their life to -$12K owed over their life; Gordon Hanson.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:55 PM
 
154 posts, read 335,437 times
Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
No economists won't, most say that those DREAMies who go to college merely lower there number from -$89K owed to the American taxpayer over their life to -$12K owed over their life; Gordon Hanson.
why do you always? try to disprove, an argument, claim or alligation. just by invoking, economists. like if they are right beside you, telling you, like if you know every single one of them. you never even give a counter argument, all you do is say economist say this, say that. just look at the whole world, everything is feck up. because goverments follow theadvice of economist. economists are todays shamas. economist dont produce a thing. they twist, and choose between the many differrent economic theories, that best fits the companies, goverments or their own agenda for their self interest. economics is not an exact science. is not like math or phisics. they are pretty much like futuretellers. they all have different points of view. now a days they seem to be more succesful but is just becuase the human factor can be manipulated to act in a certain way by social engenireeng. like how the media brain washes people, in a way that people is more predictable. well i dont want to get into that.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:18 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
The last large influx of legal immigrants was after WW2. Except for the Russian Jews in the 70's, there have been no large influx of legal immigrants. The post WW2 immigrants within 10 years jumped from being cheap labor at about $30/week jumped to an average of $60/week. And as the immigrants quickly jumped up the wage ladder, no legals were filling their positions. Thats how we ended with the following situation in 1954:
OPERATION ******* | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)



That would be 0.75 per hour. In 2012 dollars thats $8 per hour. Thus by your numbers a ditch digger should be paid $16 per hour. Add the employer pays in addition to the hour salary and it adds up to $25/hour, $200/day, $1000/wk, $52,000/yr and none of this includes an employers overhead connected to just running the business.



The only people who made great money were the contractors (we'll treat this as non-union), the sub contractors got paid about $50/hr and from that $50/hr they had to cover their employees and OH. So it depends on which part of contrcction you are talking about? It could anywhere from a Journeyman to a laborer.

See. These are called numbers. Stating the words fair wage means nothing without numerical data.
A drywaller used to make around $15.00 an hour before the influx of cheap, illegal labor and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Again, are you saying that an employer such as yourself should operate outside the immigration and hiring laws of this country just because your claim is that you can't make a profit unless you do?
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Up North
3,404 posts, read 7,254,275 times
Reputation: 3036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
No economists won't, most say that those DREAMies who go to college merely lower there number from -$89K owed to the American taxpayer over their life to -$12K owed over their life; Gordon Hanson.


Sources or it never happened
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:24 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitedstatian View Post
why do you always? try to disprove, an argument, claim or alligation. just by invoking, economists. like if they are right beside you, telling you, like if you know every single one of them. you never even give a counter argument, all you do is say economist say this, say that. just look at the whole world, everything is feck up. because goverments follow theadvice of economist. economists are todays shamas. economist dont produce a thing. they twist, and choose between the many differrent economic theories, that best fits the companies, goverments or their own agenda for their self interest. economics is not an exact science. is not like math or phisics. they are pretty much like futuretellers. they all have different points of view. now a days they seem to be more succesful but is just becuase the human factor can be manipulated to act in a certain way by social engenireeng. like how the media brain washes people, in a way that people is more predictable. well i dont want to get into that.
Look at my comment, I did disprove Pear Martinis argument. Why is it when you post it never has any real substance? So what exactly is your argument? Or are you simply because you get made to look foolish whenever you comment?
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:28 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pear Martini View Post
Sources or it never happened
Here's 3 quick sources

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/Hanson-Dec09.pdf
Quote:
Based on the profile of immigrant households in the US Current
Population Survey, households headed by an unauthorized immigrant appear to generate a
short-run net fiscal cost of approximately 0.1 percent of US GDP.
24
Thats a net fiscal cost of $14Billion per year to the GDP and another $4.2Billion they take in child tax credits from ITIN filing, not counting their social costs, which follow:

Here is the Dallas Feds saying the $89,000 costs
Quote:
The report says that while low-skilled immigrants can be a drain on local economies, high-skilled immigrants tend to pay more in taxes than they take back in government services.....• Over all, a low-skilled immigrant costs $89,000 more over his or her lifetime in government services than the amount that he or she pays in taxes.
How about from the NRC:
Quote:
They found that during his lifetime an immigrant without a high school education
imposed a net fiscal drain on taxpayers of $89,000; for those with only a high school degree
it was $31,000.
Now are you telling me you don't know how to research anything?

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 06-19-2012 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,894 posts, read 22,678,977 times
Reputation: 8634
Quote:
Again, are you saying that an employer such as yourself should operate outside the immigration and hiring laws of this country just because your claim is that you can't make a profit unless you do?
Actually all people who work for me (or I've subed too) have been e-verified if they work for me in this country (US). I just hire enough to get the job done at the right price and done at the price quoted (if I misquote, which hasnt happened in decades, then I cover the overage and not my customer).
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:07 PM
 
3,847 posts, read 3,162,024 times
Reputation: 2440
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Voters agree with the decision.
Liberal pollsters might, if that was the case it would have been put to a vote a long time ago. Proposition 187 was favored AND passed by California voters , but Liberals wouldn't accept that reality either.

I'm sure you would get the majority of " voters" outside the local Home Depot though.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:02 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,791,262 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why? Did Obama wave a magic wand and instantly legalize Dreamies? If so, I missed it. As for accommodations, illegals have been receiving those for years. Nothing new.




DHS: Secretary Napolitano Announces Deferred Action Process for Young People Who Are Low Enforcement Priorities

In other words, Obama's EO has changed nothing. In fact, DHS was already focusing on so-called "criminal" aliens, allowing Dreamies and other illegals to have sit-ins at congressional offices, block intersections, and brazenly proclaim their illegal status on major news networks without the fear of apprehension or deportation. Moreover, I doubt his new policy will ever be fully implemented. They even stated it will take at least 60 days before they can begin implementation of the application process. How very convenient. After all, by their own admission, USCIS currently lacks the resources to adequately track simple tourist visas (as evidenced by the fact that at least 40% of illegals are visa overstays). So, we certainly can't expect them to expeditiously tackle hundreds of thousands or even millions of new applicants, can we? Even then, a select group of illegals will only become "eligible to apply" for two-year visas and work permits. There are no guarantees they will actually receive them. This is simply a ploy to galvanize the Hispanic voting bloc who had lost faith in Obama, and were most likely not going to vote. Now, they will eagerly vote for him.

Remember, to secure the Hispanic vote in 2008, he "promised" he would tackle CIR/Dream Act during his first 100 days in office. In addition, he "promised" he would pass an immigration bill before the end of his first term. To the dismay of Hispanic voters and other illegal alien supporters, he reneged on both. He's a shrewd politician, I'll give him that. Despite his abysmal immigration record, all he had to do was throw another bone at Hispanic voters, and they again have fallen for his election strategy hook, line, and sinker. Some people are so gullible.

Interestingly, he announced his EO the week prior to his meeting with Hispanic leaders, who were outraged at his deportation record and his failure to honor his pre-election promises. Likewise, to garner support from gays, he suddenly "evolved" only days prior to an important fundraiser by proponents of same-sex marriage. Coincidence? I think not.

If he fails to deliver his Dreamie promise, he can easily blame it on a lack of resources due to the economy, unforeseen issues in the verification process, or even obstructionism by Republican members of Congress. Let's not forget, Congress will still have to approve funding for this program. Obama doesn't have to deliver. He only has to convince the sheeple he tried. His goal is reelection, period. If he succeeds, it won't matter if he loses the Hispanic voting bloc, will it?

I think your celebration is a bit premature. Thus far, you have nothing but his directive to DHS. As of today, Dreamies are still illegal, still ineligible to work, and still yearning for the passage of the Dream Act and a path to citizenship. Bottom line: Don't count your chickens before they hatch. You may discover you have AGAIN been duped.
All hail the all knowing Benicar! You can spin it anyway you want, but this is victory for the pro-immigrant lobby.
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