U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-22-2012, 08:46 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,967,072 times
Reputation: 22179

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleRain_1 View Post
I am sorry if the truth offends you but at the end of the day like you, I am entitled to and stand by my opinion regarding the need for a moratorium on all immigration until America gets it's house in order. Whether you agree with me or not as an American it is just as personal for me as it is for you. For decades no administration has monitored or dealt with the problem of legal or illegal immigation. With the economy in the toilet and no real enforcement or solution proposed by anyone for more than 2.5 decades, both the number of legal and illegal immigrants is simply out of control. Add to that the number of recently unemployed but employable Americans and we have a massive problem in this country. There are millions of people here and nobody knows who they are or if they had visas and if so, when their visas expired. It does not mean that everyone who feels this way is "anti-immigrant", it's just common sense. Additionally, never have I stated anything in defense of convicted felons. Because you disagreed with my statement regarding putting US citizens before admittance of more foreigners, during your tantrum and in your, blind rage you knowingly and deliberately made an untrue statement about me. In the future I would appreciate you refraining from making and attributing false statements to or about me.
I think you're both right. When it comes to a 22 year old kid who says he wants a job but cannot fine any, and this kid has a car, a cell phone and knows how to apply for jobs then it's true, some Americans are lazy. When it comes to some 30 year old who was making $70,000 a year and figures he shouldn't accept a $30,000 a year job because the unemployment handouts are better and he can enjoy his vacation it may also be true that some Americans really don't want jobs that much.

But you hear of too many returning vets who can't find work, and you hear of over 50 year old people being denied jobs over and over.

But it's not just them either -- there are people in this country who some of us would like see be able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps -- but they need bootstraps, and they need boots. Kids in the inner cities for example, whose only salvation, only way out is to become employed, may not have all the skills, they may need some pushing, some job training, some patience.

Or is it just too easy to bring in cheap illegal foreigners by the many millions and just let our own fellow citizens rot? We OWE it to the American people to put American people first. Throwing away these people, never giving these youths a chance is wrong, it's not what being a country is about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-22-2012, 09:44 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,820,999 times
Reputation: 4451
between allowing lower pay, lower skill workers into this country to drag down wages, and outsourcing the higher tech, higher pay jobs, it is a wonder that this country has survived at all.

it is a testament to the united states that we have hung on as long as we have-under the circumstances, but the numbers are clearly not good now.

from burning platform:
The Federal Reserve released its Survey of Consumer Finances last week. It’s a fact filled 80 page report they issue every three years to provide a financial snapshot of American households. As you can see from the chart above, the impact of the worldwide financial collapse has been catastrophic to most of the households in the U.S. A 39% decline in median net worth over a three year time frame is almost incomprehensible. Even worse, the decline has surely continued for the average American household through 2012 as home prices have continued to fall. Median family income plunged by 7.7% over a three year time frame and has not recovered since the collection of this data 18 months ago. Even more shocking is the fact that median household income was $48,900 in 2001. Families are making 6.3% less today than they were a decade ago. These figures are adjusted for inflation using the BLS massaged CPI figures. Anyone not under the influence of psychotic drugs or engaged as a paid shill for the financial oligarchy knows that inflation is purposely under reported in order to keep the masses sedated and pacified. The real decline in median household income is in excess of 20% since 2001.

The destruction of the blue collar jobs has been underway since the early 1970s. And the relentless decline in real blue collar wages has followed a bumpy downward path for decades. Sadly, the average person doesn’t understand the insidious destruction caused to their lives by the Federal Reserve generated inflation, as they actually believe their wages today are higher than they were in 1973. The reality is the oligarchy has used foreign wage differentials and the perceived benefits of globalization to ship manufacturing and now service jobs to Asia while using their captured mainstream media to convince the average American that this has been beneficial to their lives. Using one of their 15 credit cards to buy cheap foreign goods made by people who took their jobs was never so easy. I wonder if the benefits of being able to buy cheap Chinese electronics, toxic dog food, and slave labor produced igadgets outweighed the $2.3 trillion increase in consumer debt, 27% decline in real wages, 7 million manufacturing jobs lost since the mid-1970s, 46 million people on food stamps, $15 trillion increase in the National Debt since 1978, and a gutted decaying industrial base.

can you imagine how this is dragging us down as a country?
In 2000, 17.3 million people were on food stamps and that number has now ballooned to 46.6 million--that's mind-boggling in 12years. (can you imagine if we keep at this rate????)

here's one more statistic to consider:
The (Defense Commissary) Agency reports that nearly $88 million worth of food stamps were used at commissaries nationwide in 2011, up from $31 million in 2008---that's in only 3 years.

i don't think most americans think we are headed in the right direction now, either.

Last edited by floridasandy; 06-22-2012 at 09:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2012, 06:26 AM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,430,698 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I think you're both right. When it comes to a 22 year old kid who says he wants a job but cannot fine any, and this kid has a car, a cell phone and knows how to apply for jobs then it's true, some Americans are lazy. When it comes to some 30 year old who was making $70,000 a year and figures he shouldn't accept a $30,000 a year job because the unemployment handouts are better and he can enjoy his vacation it may also be true that some Americans really don't want jobs that much.

But you hear of too many returning vets who can't find work, and you hear of over 50 year old people being denied jobs over and over.

But it's not just them either -- there are people in this country who some of us would like see be able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps -- but they need bootstraps, and they need boots. Kids in the inner cities for example, whose only salvation, only way out is to become employed, may not have all the skills, they may need some pushing, some job training, some patience.

Or is it just too easy to bring in cheap illegal foreigners by the many millions and just let our own fellow citizens rot? We OWE it to the American people to put American people first. Throwing away these people, never giving these youths a chance is wrong, it's not what being a country is about.
Well stated and I couldn't agree more.

Last edited by PurpleRain_1; 06-23-2012 at 06:41 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2012, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,965,498 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleRain_1 View Post
I am sorry if the truth offends you but at the end of the day like you, I am entitled to and stand by my opinion regarding the need for a moratorium on all immigration until America gets it's house in order. Whether you agree with me or not as an American it is just as personal for me as it is for you. For decades no administration has monitored or dealt with the problem of legal or illegal immigation. With the economy in the toilet and no real enforcement or solution proposed by anyone for more than 2.5 decades, both the number of legal and illegal immigrants is simply out of control. Add to that the number of recently unemployed but employable Americans and we have a massive problem in this country. There are millions of people here and nobody knows who they are or if they had visas and if so, when their visas expired. It does not mean that everyone who feels this way is "anti-immigrant", it's just common sense. Additionally, never have I stated anything in defense of convicted felons. Because you disagreed with my statement regarding putting US citizens before admittance of more foreigners, during your tantrum and in your, blind rage you knowingly and deliberately made an untrue statement about me. In the future I would appreciate you refraining from making and attributing false statements to or about me.
No false statements were made and I think you know this.
Tantrum? Blind rage? You have never seen my rage and be grateful for that. Tantrum? Not at all.
As for the rest.
One word. Compromise. We have seen 12 years of 0 compromise and possably 50 of limited compromise. That is why this nation's economy is in the toilet.
Legal immigration is not the cause, does not exasperate the situation nor does it complicate it.
What costs more crime or the burden of legal immigration?
Why are americans out of work?
Because we have priced ourselves out of work. We may not like it, but we are a global economy. We in the past were able to compete with cheap labor by being the most productive society on earth. Then we became lazy. Then we started to demand more and more until finally we priced ourselves out of the game. We lost our edge in the 1970's. Japan caught up to us and showed the world how to do it. Japan pays very welland delivers good benefits. So whats different? The employee commitment to their job. South Korea copied the Japanese blueprint.
THen came China, cheap labor, most favored nation status, US sheeple blindly following greedy politicians. Immigration is not the problem. We the people are the problem.
Your opinion is end immigration or now you say temparary ban. To what end? Will Willard take that job at BK rather than play video games all day?
Will Sarah take that job at the temp services that makes her get up at 4:30 am? She wasn't willing to do it before. Oh if they pay her more to do a no brainer job? Will she show up motivated? I think not.
But hey dream on. Your faith in the next generation is certainly stronger than mine. I train them every day, I see it everyday. 1 out of 10 would be someone I personally would hire.
People on Unemployment. well 99 weeks to sit on your azz. Thats a long hard habit to break.... I question anyones wotk ethic that prefers UE over work. If they can work and opt not to? They forfeit the moral high ground.
Illegals. 30 years of little or no enforcement. we have at least 12 million illegals. None belong here, none deserve to be here, but here they are anyway. YES enforce our current laws. YES secure the border. YES focus on the violent criminals.
YES find a way to deal with the problem in such a way that results are attainable. 1 word. Compromise.
It will never happen of course. This forum is absolute proof of that. I have tried for what 5 years now?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2012, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,965,498 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I think you're both right. When it comes to a 22 year old kid who says he wants a job but cannot fine any, and this kid has a car, a cell phone and knows how to apply for jobs then it's true, some Americans are lazy. When it comes to some 30 year old who was making $70,000 a year and figures he shouldn't accept a $30,000 a year job because the unemployment handouts are better and he can enjoy his vacation it may also be true that some Americans really don't want jobs that much.

But you hear of too many returning vets who can't find work, and you hear of over 50 year old people being denied jobs over and over.

But it's not just them either -- there are people in this country who some of us would like see be able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps -- but they need bootstraps, and they need boots. Kids in the inner cities for example, whose only salvation, only way out is to become employed, may not have all the skills, they may need some pushing, some job training, some patience.

Or is it just too easy to bring in cheap illegal foreigners by the many millions and just let our own fellow citizens rot? We OWE it to the American people to put American people first. Throwing away these people, never giving these youths a chance is wrong, it's not what being a country is about.
Old saying. You can't help those who wont help themselves. At some point one must see the effort loss in trying.
Inner city kids. Need pushing? Need training? To do no brain work? Then shame on them. Average rual kid has strong basic or intermediate mechanical ability. Has work ethic produced from a young age.
If parents in the cities neglect their childrens training then shame on them. Asking corporate america to be patient or anyone else not connectected with that persons up bringing is unrealistic.

Young Vets struggling. Many are and I feel for them. Its not due to immigration tho. Its due to politicians and failure to compromise and be functional. Our economy is in the tank because of our government.

Bootstraps? We make ourr own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2012, 08:01 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,195,062 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
No false statements were made and I think you know this.
Tantrum? Blind rage? You have never seen my rage and be grateful for that. Tantrum? Not at all.
As for the rest.
One word. Compromise. We have seen 12 years of 0 compromise and possably 50 of limited compromise. That is why this nation's economy is in the toilet.
Legal immigration is not the cause, does not exasperate the situation nor does it complicate it.
What costs more crime or the burden of legal immigration?
Why are americans out of work?
Because we have priced ourselves out of work. We may not like it, but we are a global economy. We in the past were able to compete with cheap labor by being the most productive society on earth. Then we became lazy. Then we started to demand more and more until finally we priced ourselves out of the game. We lost our edge in the 1970's. Japan caught up to us and showed the world how to do it. Japan pays very welland delivers good benefits. So whats different? The employee commitment to their job. South Korea copied the Japanese blueprint.
THen came China, cheap labor, most favored nation status, US sheeple blindly following greedy politicians. Immigration is not the problem. We the people are the problem.
Your opinion is end immigration or now you say temparary ban. To what end? Will Willard take that job at BK rather than play video games all day?
Will Sarah take that job at the temp services that makes her get up at 4:30 am? She wasn't willing to do it before. Oh if they pay her more to do a no brainer job? Will she show up motivated? I think not.
But hey dream on. Your faith in the next generation is certainly stronger than mine. I train them every day, I see it everyday. 1 out of 10 would be someone I personally would hire.
People on Unemployment. well 99 weeks to sit on your azz. Thats a long hard habit to break.... I question anyones wotk ethic that prefers UE over work. If they can work and opt not to? They forfeit the moral high ground.
Illegals. 30 years of little or no enforcement. we have at least 12 million illegals. None belong here, none deserve to be here, but here they are anyway. YES enforce our current laws. YES secure the border. YES focus on the violent criminals.
YES find a way to deal with the problem in such a way that results are attainable. 1 word. Compromise.
It will never happen of course. This forum is absolute proof of that. I have tried for what 5 years now?
I understand your advocacy for legal immigrants especially since your wife is one. However, it doesn't make sense not to consider reducing our numbers of new legal immigrants at this time since we are in a recession and there are virtually no jobs. Perhaps, if we didn't have millions of illegal aliens taking jobs in this country there would be no reason to do that. That is why I don't understand your change of heart aka compromise on illegal immigration now. You haven't been an advocate for compromise on illegal immigraton in this forum for 5 years. You have been adamantly opposed to illegal immigration. All of a sudden someone says something about reducing legal immigration temporarily and you're whole demeanor and opinion changes? You should be mad at the illegal aliens and the greedy employers not those of us who are just seeking a common sense solution. That can't be any compromise for illegal aliens, IMO.

The cost of everything has gone up immensely and yet you say Americans have priced themselves out of their jobs? Americans don't want to live several families in a household to make ends meet and drop to a third world status. The greedy corporations just wanted to make more money so they reduced wages and hired illegal aliens. I can't imagine any American being ok with that.

I will reiterate that when you have a family to feed it makes no sense to take a job that pays less than UE does. They are usually jobs that aren't even in line with the unemployed's work experience and they would be considered over qualified and not get hired anyway. Even those low paying jobs are scarce today.

As I have already stated to you, most of the young Americans I know are not lazy and are in need of a job but can't find one. I work as a volunteer and those I work with including my own young family members are not lazy. Sure you will find one or two that are but being the majority....no. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that then.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2012, 08:04 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,195,062 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Old saying. You can't help those who wont help themselves. At some point one must see the effort loss in trying.
Inner city kids. Need pushing? Need training? To do no brain work? Then shame on them. Average rual kid has strong basic or intermediate mechanical ability. Has work ethic produced from a young age.
If parents in the cities neglect their childrens training then shame on them. Asking corporate america to be patient or anyone else not connectected with that persons up bringing is unrealistic.

Young Vets struggling. Many are and I feel for them. Its not due to immigration tho. Its due to politicians and failure to compromise and be functional. Our economy is in the tank because of our government.

Bootstraps? We make ourr own.
How would compromise to illegal aliens by allowing them to stay here and retain the jobs they are holding going to help the job opportunites for our returning Vets?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,965,498 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I understand your advocacy for legal immigrants especially since your wife is one. However, it doesn't make sense not to consider reducing our numbers of new legal immigrants at this time since we are in a recession and there are virtually no jobs. Perhaps, if we didn't have millions of illegal aliens taking jobs in this country there would be no reason to do that. That is why I don't understand your change of heart aka compromise on illegal immigration now. You haven't been an advocate for compromise on illegal immigraton in this forum for 5 years. You have been adamantly opposed to illegal immigration. All of a sudden someone says something about reducing legal immigration temporarily and you're whole demeanor and opinion changes? You should be mad at the illegal aliens and the greedy employers not those of us who are just seeking a common sense solution. That can't be any compromise for illegal aliens, IMO.

The cost of everything has gone up immensely and yet you say Americans have priced themselves out of their jobs? Americans don't want to live several families in a household to make ends meet and drop to a third world status. The greedy corporations just wanted to make more money so they reduced wages and hired illegal aliens. I can't imagine any American being ok with that.

I will reiterate that when you have a family to feed it makes no sense to take a job that pays less than UE does. They are usually jobs that aren't even in line with the unemployed's work experience and they would be considered over qualified and not get hired anyway. Even those low paying jobs are scarce today.

As I have already stated to you, most of the young Americans I know are not lazy and are in need of a job but can't find one. I work as a volunteer and those I work with including my own young family members are not lazy. Sure you will find one or two that are but being the majority....no. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that then.
I have always been willing to make an intellegent compromise. The very definition of ignorance is to refuse to change or evolve when better ways are proven available.
Part of the reason costs have gone up is because we price ourselves so high. If American corporations want to compete with foreigners then we must either be able to work more efficiently or cheaper. Cheaper is already out the window. That means we must be better at the job. In some cases we are but we are losing ground. With each retiring member of the work force we are losing our competitive edge. Todays youth simply have no drive to be number one at anything but video games.
How did we lose our steel industry? How is Japanese steel better than ours? They pay as well as we do but need less people to run basically the same equipment. Why? I know the answers. I work in a factory and got to go work in other factories to learn new ideas. You wont find a clue in any union hall.
Unemployment. Make excuses for the leeches all you want. They have no moral high ground to complain. Personally I would never hire anyone who rode that train to the end. Their work ethic is already demonstrated. It's not free money. Its people like them and those who support it that have destroyed our nation and our economy. Try this, work two jobs if you must to feed your family. I did and many people today still do. Those illegals you hate will, so will legal immigrants. And that is the difference between us and them. Although when I say us I don't mean me because I am not lazy or a scam artist. As I said work is available, some simply opt not to work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,965,498 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
How would compromise to illegal aliens by allowing them to stay here and retain the jobs they are holding going to help the job opportunites for our returning Vets?
Are you a vet?
Does compromise prevent these vets from getting work?
Are you qualified to speak for the vets? Is it an issue of their MOS has no civilian comparable job?
I was a sniper not a whole lot of civilian jobs for me. No desire to be a cop or a hit man so I adapted.
Can you prove that these illegals are holding jobs that these vets seek? Most company's prefer to hire vets. We are more disiplined and actually show up for work when we are supposed to. perhaps these vets set their sights to high? I don't know the ones I do know found jobs within a few weeks of getting out.
The sons of the guys I served with have served and are working also.
I can tell you that most fortune 500 companys screen for legals only. The one I work for does. So no illegal has cost anyone the chance to work here. I am happy to say that my latest newhire was terminated friday. 23 yearsold late for work again can't live with out a cellphone for 5 minutes. They can enjoy their texting all they want now at home.
Said it before and I'll say it again. We did this to ourselves. We spoil our children and they are unprepared. They can't compete against immigrants legal or otherwise because they simply have no drive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2012, 10:29 AM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,430,698 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
No false statements were made and I think you know this.
Tantrum? Blind rage? You have never seen my rage and be grateful for that. Tantrum? Not at all.
As for the rest.
One word. Compromise. We have seen 12 years of 0 compromise and possably 50 of limited compromise. That is why this nation's economy is in the toilet.
Legal immigration is not the cause, does not exasperate the situation nor does it complicate it.
What costs more crime or the burden of legal immigration?
Why are americans out of work?
Because we have priced ourselves out of work. We may not like it, but we are a global economy. We in the past were able to compete with cheap labor by being the most productive society on earth. Then we became lazy. Then we started to demand more and more until finally we priced ourselves out of the game. We lost our edge in the 1970's. Japan caught up to us and showed the world how to do it. Japan pays very welland delivers good benefits. So whats different? The employee commitment to their job. South Korea copied the Japanese blueprint.
THen came China, cheap labor, most favored nation status, US sheeple blindly following greedy politicians. Immigration is not the problem. We the people are the problem.
Your opinion is end immigration or now you say temparary ban. To what end? Will Willard take that job at BK rather than play video games all day?
Will Sarah take that job at the temp services that makes her get up at 4:30 am? She wasn't willing to do it before. Oh if they pay her more to do a no brainer job? Will she show up motivated? I think not.
But hey dream on. Your faith in the next generation is certainly stronger than mine. I train them every day, I see it everyday. 1 out of 10 would be someone I personally would hire.
People on Unemployment. well 99 weeks to sit on your azz. Thats a long hard habit to break.... I question anyones wotk ethic that prefers UE over work. If they can work and opt not to? They forfeit the moral high ground.
Illegals. 30 years of little or no enforcement. we have at least 12 million illegals. None belong here, none deserve to be here, but here they are anyway. YES enforce our current laws. YES secure the border. YES focus on the violent criminals.
YES find a way to deal with the problem in such a way that results are attainable. 1 word. Compromise.
It will never happen of course. This forum is absolute proof of that. I have tried for what 5 years now?
Since I am the one who on two occasions posted that there should be a moratorium on all immigration until America gets its house in order, it is more than obvious that you are angry because my opinion differs from yours with regard to legal immigration. As for encountering your rage, I would hope that this is an idol threat as a difference of opinion does not merit such childish behavior.

While I agree with you in terms of many Americans being too lazy to work hard, there's two sides to every story. Not all foreigners (legal or illegal) come here to work as exhibited by the legal and illegal immigrant welfare. I personally processed fraudulent returns submitted by legal immigrants for several years as an employee of the IRS CI division. At the end of the day there are unemployed, hard working qualified Americans that desperately need jobs. While I understand your frustration with regards to the quality of applicants you have encountered, at the end of the day your personal experience is limited to those not wanting to work in ONE factory. Not all of the Americans looking for jobs are factory workers, just as not all legal immigrants will be factory workers. I think it is safe to say that if given a visa, many of them will compete with unemployed, under-employed qualified and experienced American workers and college graduates for jobs in professional career oriented positions. Thus, my statement regarding a moratorium on all immigration until America gets it's own house in order.

I think this is a topic that merits an in depth discussion. I'm happy that you had a change of heart about not posting on CD again. Welcome back

Last edited by PurpleRain_1; 06-24-2012 at 11:02 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top