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Old 06-24-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,834,008 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Illegals. 30 years of little or no enforcement. we have at least 12 million illegals. None belong here, none deserve to be here, but here they are anyway. YES enforce our current laws. YES secure the border. YES focus on the violent criminals.
YES find a way to deal with the problem in such a way that results are attainable. 1 word. Compromise.
It will never happen of course. This forum is absolute proof of that. I have tried for what 5 years now?
Did we not compromise in 1986, when an estimated 1 million illegals were expected to be amnestied, but 3 million became the actual tally? Despite amnestying 3 million, an estimated 12-20+ million (so many that no one actually knows) have subsequently entered our country illegally. We were also promised if we granted that group amnesty, we would NEVER need to "compromise" again with foreigners who ignore our immigration laws. Should we expect to compromise every 20+ years?

Quote:
In 1986, speaking on behalf of another immigration bill, Kennedy said, "This amnesty will give citizenship to only 1.3 million illegal aliens. We will secure the borders. We will never again bring forth an amnesty bill like this."
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:25 AM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,426,052 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Are you a vet?
Does compromise prevent these vets from getting work?
Are you qualified to speak for the vets? Is it an issue of their MOS has no civilian comparable job?
I was a sniper not a whole lot of civilian jobs for me. No desire to be a cop or a hit man so I adapted.
Can you prove that these illegals are holding jobs that these vets seek? Most company's prefer to hire vets. We are more disiplined and actually show up for work when we are supposed to. perhaps these vets set their sights to high? I don't know the ones I do know found jobs within a few weeks of getting out.
The sons of the guys I served with have served and are working also.
I can tell you that most fortune 500 companys screen for legals only. The one I work for does. So no illegal has cost anyone the chance to work here. I am happy to say that my latest newhire was terminated friday. 23 yearsold late for work again can't live with out a cellphone for 5 minutes. They can enjoy their texting all they want now at home.
Said it before and I'll say it again. We did this to ourselves. We spoil our children and they are unprepared. They can't compete against immigrants legal or otherwise because they simply have no drive.
I work for the VBA so I have up close personal observation. Whether qualified or not when it comes to employment with the government veterans are given preference over everyone else. I know someone that went in the front door of the Army (not during wartime) got pregnant and 6 months later received an honorable discharge and every veterans' benefit imaginable. Like a lot of veterans, she works for the government but got her job based on the 15 points veterans preference scale. Based on her status as a veteran because of the 15 points she received she was able to go into a job that she was not qualified for and is currently a grade 12. Technically, she never served this country a day in her life, yet because she went in the front door and out the back with an honorable discharge she is considered a veteran. There are plenty of choices for Vets. They are given preference over everyone else who applies.


Moral of the story, not every young person in America is lazy and not everyone who receives an honorable discharge from the military should be given veterans preference in the job market, government or private sector. As for legal immigrants, just as their countries reserve the right to determine who may be allowed to enter their country, America reserves the same rights. Do you favor an immigrant being given a job over a veteran coming home from war? With America in a full blown crisis, why do you feel that those of us wanting a temporary moratorium on all immigration are xenophobes?

Last edited by PurpleRain_1; 06-24-2012 at 11:50 AM..
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:43 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,166,436 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I have always been willing to make an intellegent compromise. The very definition of ignorance is to refuse to change or evolve when better ways are proven available.
Part of the reason costs have gone up is because we price ourselves so high. If American corporations want to compete with foreigners then we must either be able to work more efficiently or cheaper. Cheaper is already out the window. That means we must be better at the job. In some cases we are but we are losing ground. With each retiring member of the work force we are losing our competitive edge. Todays youth simply have no drive to be number one at anything but video games.
How did we lose our steel industry? How is Japanese steel better than ours? They pay as well as we do but need less people to run basically the same equipment. Why? I know the answers. I work in a factory and got to go work in other factories to learn new ideas. You wont find a clue in any union hall.
Unemployment. Make excuses for the leeches all you want. They have no moral high ground to complain. Personally I would never hire anyone who rode that train to the end. Their work ethic is already demonstrated. It's not free money. Its people like them and those who support it that have destroyed our nation and our economy. Try this, work two jobs if you must to feed your family. I did and many people today still do. Those illegals you hate will, so will legal immigrants. And that is the difference between us and them. Although when I say us I don't mean me because I am not lazy or a scam artist. As I said work is available, some simply opt not to work.

Excuse me while I disagree that wages have risen first and then the prices of goods have. It is the other way around. Again, I don't ever recall from the years I have posted in here you saying you wanted a compromise on illegal immigration. You have always been a staunch opposer of that.

Americans should be doing a better job at their jobs and that will keep prices down and stop them employers from hiring illegal aliens? I don't think so! Most of the Americans I know are very productive on their jobs. How can they do a better job without becoming slaves with no rest or working longer hours? They still have to be paid time and a half. How is that going to profit the employer?

I am sorry but I don't consider unemployed Americans through no fault of their own by choosing unemployment over a job that pays less than that, as being leeches. It's just common sense. I don't consider working two jobs as the solution either. When will they get any rest and spend time with their families? A parent gone for 16 hours a day can't be much of a parent to their kids. Do you actually think that a white collared worker or skilled blue collared is going to get one of those low paying jobs anyway? I think you know the answer to that. As I said, they would be over qualified and not even considered.

I am really disappointed in your change of attitude these past few days towards American workers and illegal aliens. Something just isn't right with you lately and I don't know what it is but I am not going to discuss this any further with you. It is too upsetting to me.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:46 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,166,436 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Are you a vet?
Does compromise prevent these vets from getting work?
Are you qualified to speak for the vets? Is it an issue of their MOS has no civilian comparable job?
I was a sniper not a whole lot of civilian jobs for me. No desire to be a cop or a hit man so I adapted.
Can you prove that these illegals are holding jobs that these vets seek? Most company's prefer to hire vets. We are more disiplined and actually show up for work when we are supposed to. perhaps these vets set their sights to high? I don't know the ones I do know found jobs within a few weeks of getting out.
The sons of the guys I served with have served and are working also.
I can tell you that most fortune 500 companys screen for legals only. The one I work for does. So no illegal has cost anyone the chance to work here. I am happy to say that my latest newhire was terminated friday. 23 yearsold late for work again can't live with out a cellphone for 5 minutes. They can enjoy their texting all they want now at home.
Said it before and I'll say it again. We did this to ourselves. We spoil our children and they are unprepared. They can't compete against immigrants legal or otherwise because they simply have no drive.
No, I am not a vet but I have several family members that are. My grandson will be returning from Afganistan soon. Since illegal aliens are taking jobs that other Americans need but would make vets exempt from that?

Nope! The reason that these greedy employers hire illegal aliens is because they can pay them less. They only appear to be harder workers because they are afraid of being deported and their job opportunities are limited. So they work as slaves out of fear and because they can afford to live on a lot less than American especially if they have an anchor or two that helps suppliment their income. It is as simple as that!
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