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Old 10-06-2007, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,640,026 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00 View Post
Is an Indian (East Indian) with perfect English and British citizenship English or Indian? I suspect they still consider themselves Indian, because of their birthplace, culture, heritage, native tongue, etc.
My grammar skills and passport do not define who I am, but thank you for the compliment, I'm often told my English is far better than the average Americans.
Culturally speaking; in Great Britain I am not sure-------here in the USA; any person with British citizenship, especially one born there is automatically English in the eyes of us Americans

I know an Arizona police officer from the UK; had a Middle Eastern surname, looked stereotypically Arabic/Iranian yet referred to himself as a 'Bloody Englishman'

Side note; Felipe Fernandez-Armesto; despite his Hispanic name. is English; born and raised......he is a professor.
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Old 10-06-2007, 11:45 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
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Interesting thread, and one I've thought about a lot. I think some of us, though, are being a little hard on the "traditionalists" among us, seeming to allude to the fact that they are being racists and xenophobes. The fact is that no country on earth ever sought to provide a home for all of mankind until America "happened"---and that the US is attempting to do things that few other nations would be willing to do.

The US is a "new" type of nation, in which there are no requirements as to race, ethnicity, or religion in order to be "members". Very little is required of anyone wanting to be a citizen. Until recent years, we've more-or-less expected folks to learn English; now even this is under attack. But it would be wise to remember that, other than a common language, and a very vague concept of some sort of "culture", there is really nothing more to hold us together as a viable nation. And no group, club, or organization could long exist if it couldn't even define what was required of its members.

There is no country on earth with a long, secure history of true multiculturalism. (And really, I think, this is what this is all about). Any nation which includes multiple cultures, without exception, has either been held together by a draconian government, or has disintegrated. There are numerous examples of both, but none of free, open, and multicultural societies.

So far, most of "our" (the US) immigrants have been relatively peace-loving---but it's a big world out there. What happens when some group shows up who not only doesn't want to assimilate here, but openly advocates our destruction? (Anyone wanting a clearer picture of this can look to Europe). Just because someone comes here, doesn't mean they LIKE us. In a case like that (and it WILL happen, sooner or later), just how multicultural can we be? Does anyone here seriously think that Europe, in the next century, won't be having some VERY serious problems? Shouldn't that be a warning to us?

I think it's fair to allow for the fact that we do need to INSIST on some parameters of just what it is that is neccessary for anyone wanting to be a part of this. It seems to me that a comon language is the very least we should expect. If that's inconvenient to some, then perhaps this isn't the country for them. But I don't see that we have much choice.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 2,978,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00 View Post
Is an Indian (East Indian) with perfect English and British citizenship English or Indian? I suspect they still consider themselves Indian, because of their birthplace, culture, heritage, native tongue, etc.
My grammar skills and passport do not define who I am, but thank you for the compliment, I'm often told my English is far better than the average Americans.
An Indian who is a British citizen is British, not English. English is as much an ethnicity as it is a nationality, at least to the English.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 2,978,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Culturally speaking; in Great Britain I am not sure-------here in the USA; any person with British citizenship, especially one born there is automatically English in the eyes of us Americans

I know an Arizona police officer from the UK; had a Middle Eastern surname, looked stereotypically Arabic/Iranian yet referred to himself as a 'Bloody Englishman'

Side note; Felipe Fernandez-Armesto; despite his Hispanic name. is English; born and raised......he is a professor.
People from the UK are British, but they are not all English. They can also be Scottish, Welsh, Irish, or some other dual nationality. Scots get kind of pissed when you call them "English".
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Old 10-06-2007, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Orlando Florida
1,352 posts, read 5,683,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00 View Post
Leave the people alone and stop complaining, maybe spend a little more time on yourself, trying to better your life instead of complaining about all the immigrants "taking over" the country.
i understand what you are saying but i dont think you have opened up and seen my side of it.....I lived in Miami and in California which both places have more hispanics than NYC.....I saw more Cubans and more Mexicans that put both countries flags (mexican flag and Cuban Flag) up next to the United States' flag...why is it that in Orlando that none of the Puert Rican population puts thier flag next to the American flag?.........give me a true answer why? not an explanation of me being a racist or me not being open minded....i am wondering what makes Puerto Ricans more pridefull to where they dont have any pride left over about being privaleged to live in the United States?

Lots of people from all races and cultures even Puerto Ricans themselves have died to be able to raise the American Flag in the United States......why raise another flag without respect of pitting up the U.S. flag next to your flag if you are living here?....The army,navy, marines, and air force peoples didnt die to fly a PuertO Rican Flag in the U.S......I go to basketball games and see boxing matches in the U.S. on TV and americans have no problem raising the flags of each country that is present...why dont Puerto Ricans put both flags up?


I am passionate about this because every Puert Rican i ask has no good reason or explanation for why they do this so i assume they have so much pride about a country that they dont even live in anymore and want americans to see where they come from i guess...but really i dont care when i dont see my flag along side that flag in my own country...at that point i could give a crap about where you come from because you dont respect my country or the country you live in ...anyone can follow laws of not killing or stealing ect...but respect is another thing....people of all races are dying in Iraq right now for the U.S. armed forces and it seems a little disrespectfull that Puerto Ricans cant bother to put an American flag up beside thier flag at this time...thats all im saying


P.S. ....You say Chinatowns in all of america right?.....well just because one person breaks laws does it mean everyone should?.....besides you even admitted that Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the U.S. so you should even be pissed that Chinesse you speak of dont fly the colors of the country that helps your country and makes you a citizen by default

Last edited by THASPECIAL; 10-06-2007 at 10:58 PM..
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:26 AM
 
3 posts, read 5,116 times
Reputation: 10
Default Learning Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by StPete2Charlotte View Post
I agree with the Topic Poster in some ways and not in others.
I visit Spanish Speaking countrys often and I have alot of Bi-lingual friends.
So Learning Spanish is something I am actively pursuing.
That's great, and I have tried to learn as much Spanish over the years as I can through college and outside, but wouldn't it be nice to see native Spanish speakers coming to the United States try to learn a little English? I mean if I move to Mexico and expect them to learn English o speak to me, how dumb is that? Same thing here. I speak enough Spanish to get by, but I often refuse to speak it if I know the person trying to communicate with me has been here for a few years and just refuses to try and learn English. English is rated to be the easiest language on the planet to learn, so if they can't pick up even the basics, it would seem maybe they just aren't as intelligent as people from other countries who can.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,640,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teikyo30 View Post
That's great, and I have tried to learn as much Spanish over the years as I can through college and outside, but wouldn't it be nice to see native Spanish speakers coming to the United States try to learn a little English? I mean if I move to Mexico and expect them to learn English o speak to me, how dumb is that? Same thing here. I speak enough Spanish to get by, but I often refuse to speak it if I know the person trying to communicate with me has been here for a few years and just refuses to try and learn English. English is rated to be the easiest language on the planet to learn, so if they can't pick up even the basics, it would seem maybe they just aren't as intelligent as people from other countries who can.
Yes and no:

English is easy to learn.......but, to speak it correctly, it is arguably one of the most difficult languages out there.

The English language has few gender/grammatical rules and the pronunciation of its vowels is not standard.
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Old 10-07-2007, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,919,192 times
Reputation: 1197
English is easy to learn?? Says who? That is entirely incorrect.

Actually Spanish is easier to learn than English. You just need to keep up with all the different verb tenses and you are there.

English is very difficult because there are so many different sound combinations and words being written in a different way than the way they sound. Many words are also spelled the same but sound different. You may in fact note that many in this forum have yet to master writing in the English language.
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Old 10-07-2007, 12:16 PM
 
3 posts, read 5,116 times
Reputation: 10
Default English

Is English an easy language to learn? - English (ESL) Weblog - UsingEnglish.com

Is English easy to learn? A personal account of language acquisition

I stand partially corrected. According to those two sources, English basics are easy to learn, but it gets more difficult. Still, the basics being easy to learn, it'd be really nice to see some Spanish-speaking people at least try to get some basic phrases learned to assist with communication. Did you know there are several movements to make Spanish the legal language of various cities/states in the US? By Spanish speakers mostly. How about we just learn a little English instead of forcing English-speaking natives to learn a second language to communicate with immigrants who would otherwise refuse to learn the language most widely spoken in this country?
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:17 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
English is easy to learn?? Says who? That is entirely incorrect. . You may in fact note that many in this forum have yet to master writing in the English language.
"This" hear ain't ture atall, and "I" four one rezent the emplacation that som hear due not right english correct. It is an "in" salt to ture Americn's who dyed for there countyr.
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