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Old 10-01-2007, 08:59 AM
 
47 posts, read 141,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiebus View Post
For most people they are pretty accepting and embracing of the different hispanic cultures here in South Florida. Now the rest of the South like GA, NC, SC, TN, Al, etc. overall not so excepting of other cultures.

Many white South Floridians have a hard time embrassing immigrants that want to come to this country but they do not learning the English language.

You know I was raised by a woman that came to this country not knowing english, she only knew a couple of words of english. She learned english, she didn't expect Americans to learn her language. And when I go to her home country, I don't expect them to speak english to me. And years ago when people were trying to make Spanish the legal language of Miami, she (not a US citizen yet) went out and got people to sign petitions against this. Protecting the english language here in Miami-Dade. Many hispanics in Miami-Dade expect whites to learn spanish. You wanted to come to this country, you need to learn the language.

Many parts of this county you can go to a grocery store and if you need help, you can find an employee in the aisle, that might say "no speakie english". To many white americans the new hispanics that have come to this country in the last 10 years they don't always learn to speak english. I understand why, there is no need too learn english in many parts of this country. But if you want to come to this country you need to embrace the english language and be accepting of the american culture. But many hispanics are not embracing the english language once they come to this country, which they want to be in.

And so, many like myself joke that when we leave Miami-Dade and go to Broward or Palm Beach County we are entering the US. Because there is truely a difference just a few miles north.

I would just like to say, I agree with what you've said here. I personally feel that a lot of english speaking white americans have issues with miami today b/c of the fact that they feel they are not wanted and do not fit in. I think they feel as if they are being run out of their homes in a way. I think its great to embrace the cultural mix as "NewYork" said, but it doesn't seem like that's happening in Miami. That is my only issue with the immigration, if you come to this country, you should want to learn the language and the culture, the same way I would learn the language and culture in your country wherever that may be. Thank you for speaking for me as well. I couldn't have said it better!
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:45 AM
 
199 posts, read 159,216 times
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This English/Spanish debate is outdated. The hispanic population is on pace to pass the non-hispanic white population within the next 20 years. The vast majority of these Spanish speaking folks are law abiding people with solid incomes and families.

Many countries do just fine with 2 major lanquages.

Those of you who can not change and adapt to America becoming an English and Spanish mutually spoken country will simply frustrate yourselves and your kids.

It is what it is, a changing country.
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 23,226,903 times
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You will do better learning Mandarin Chinese instead of Spanish it seems, Spanish speakers are now a dime a dozen!
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:54 PM
 
201 posts, read 1,167,764 times
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I agree with the Topic Poster in some ways and not in others.
I visit Spanish Speaking countrys often and I have alot of Bi-lingual friends.
So Learning Spanish is something I am actively pursuing.
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:14 AM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,045,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunandsand View Post

Many countries do just fine with 2 major lanquages.
Name five.
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Orlando Florida
1,352 posts, read 5,679,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ2FL View Post
No offense to anyone writing posts on here, but what the hell is wrong with everyone???? I honestly don't get it. I mean, why are we talking about illegal immigrants. Do you hate the illegal immigrants that come here to make a better home for their families and work hard every damn day to pay the bills the same as you and I? Or do you hate the gangs and crime and corruption that is being dealt with daily, b/c its not just caused by hispanics? I'm trying to understand what you're problem is with hispanics? Or any other race for that matter? We do have every right to want to protect our country the same as anyone else. If foreigners are coming here, using our country and disrespecting us, etc etc, then fine! But for the people who come here wanting to take care of their families and wishing for a better life for themselves, and they DO learn our language and culture, what's the god damn problem?? Whites, Blacks, Browns, yellows and friggin purples. . . we're all equal, I'm no better than you and you sure aren't any better than me! Lets stop blaming immigrants for our problems, we've caused plenty before we had a problem with immigration, wake up! Why don't we start with our government to rid ourselves of the gangs and crime and try to see eachother as what we really are, the same! Maybe I'm just really niave, it breaks my heart to see that we can't count on eachother, and teach our children that racism is WRONG! It makes me never want to have kids so they don't have to live in this horrible world and hurt the way we hurt. We have no love or compassion left. Sorry, I don't mean to lecture, it just causes me so much pain to see the hatred that exists here. Good luck to all of us, we really are going to need it.


I agree that there are good people in all races, but you are from New Jersey and I really don't think you know the history of Miami and the reasons why it has changed.....The first wave of Cubans came and things were not bad after that but a couple decades later there were Colombian drug lords bringing thier ways into our streets in street wars that the U.S. had never seen since the days of Chicago's gangland period, but this was worse......after that Castro sent alot of prisoners and bad people from the Cuban culture over here (along side some normal good Cubans) and ever since then alot of these Latin Americans that only knew that bad way of life had family or friends that were into the same things come over and Miami has never been the same......There are older Cubans that raised good children that you see in Miami as grandkids in thier 20's - 30's today and there are good ones from other races too but there were alot of things that the bad Colombians and Cubans brought from thier culture and still live in america in the same habits....



My father was a cop in Miami and always told me stories of Latin men demanding respect from thier woman and there was a skyrocket in domestic physical abuse cases in Miami with the new attitudes from men beating thier wives or girlfriends because that was normal in thier home country.....and then there was a large part of that same latin population that was hardened in life being in thier country and saw murder as not even a second thought if they felt disrespected.......and there are alot of other things that have happened in Miami underneath the surface too.......it's not the immigrants that are following the rules and respecting our culture that are the problem....its the large amount that has brought thier way of life here because they know no better .......I actually think there is a large population of Cubans and other latins in Miami that are assimilating fine and dont expect people in the U.S. to change and speak thier language......i live in Orlando and there is a large Puerto Rican population here....and i actually had a better time around the Cubans and colombians living in Miami then i do with the Puerto Ricans in Orlando........


there are alot of good Puerto Ricans too that i work with and have as friends alot of them are not proud of being an american None of them says "I'm puerto Rican american"......Lots of Cubans will say they are Cuban-American though......i know Puert Rico is a commonwealth but that means that its part of the U.S. and they should at least fly the american flag too out of respect for thier american brothers that die along side them in the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines......i noticed while living in Miami that i saw more Cubans with an american flag next to thier home flag then i ever saw up here with Puerto Ricans having thier flag put up next to an american flag

Last edited by THASPECIAL; 10-03-2007 at 06:50 AM..
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:30 AM
 
47 posts, read 141,239 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by THASPECIAL View Post
I agree that there are good people in all races, but you are from New Jersey and I really don't think you know the history of Miami and the reasons why it has changed.....The first wave of Cubans came and things were not bad after that but a couple decades later there were Colombian drug lords bringing thier ways into our streets in street wars that the U.S. had never seen since the days of Chicago's gangland period, but this was worse......after that Castro sent alot of prisoners and bad people from the Cuban culture over here (along side some normal good Cubans) and ever since then alot of these Latin Americans that only knew that bad way of life had family or friends that were into the same things come over and Miami has never been the same......There are older Cubans that raised good children that you see in Miami as grandkids in thier 20's - 30's today and there are good ones from other races too but there were alot of things that the bad Colombians and Cubans brought from thier culture and still live in america in the same habits....


My father was a cop in Miami and always told me stories of Latin men demanding respect from thier woman and there was a skyrocket in domestic physical abuse cases in Miami with the new attitudes from men beating thier wives or girlfriends because that was normal in thier home country.....and then there was a large part of that same latin population that was hardened in life being in thier country and saw murder as not even a second thought if they felt disrespected.......and there are alot of other things that have happened in Miami underneath the surface too.......it's not the immigrants that are following the rules and respecting our culture that are the problem....its the large amount that has brought thier way of life here because they know no better .......I actually think there is a large population of Cubans and other latins in Miami that are assimilating fine and dont expect people in the U.S. to change and speak thier language......i live in Orlando and there is a large Puerto Rican population here....and i actually had a better time around the Cubans and colombians living in Miami then i do with the Puerto Ricans in Orlando........


there are alot of good Puerto Ricans too that i work with and have as friends alot of them are not proud of being an american None of them says "I'm puerto Rican american"......Lots of Cubans will say they are Cuban-American though......i know Puert Rico is a commonwealth but that means that its part of the U.S. and they should at least fly the american flag too out of respect for thier american brothers that die along side them in the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines......i noticed while living in Miami that i saw more Cubans with an american flag next to thier home flag then i ever saw up here with Puerto Ricans having thier flag put up next to an american flag


Thank you for explaining the situation to me a little better. You're right about the fact that I don't know from experience what's going on in Miami right now. I see your point, I wasn't trying to say that all immigrants/foreignors are innocent, AT ALL! But, I guess I'm so tired of seeing us put into different groups and categories based on race. I know not a lot of people feel the way I do, it's just a sad world that we live in right now. Being a Puerto Rican American myself, (I'm 50% puerto rican and German & Turkish) I have to say I'm very dissappointed to hear that Puerto Ricans act that way in Orlando or any place at all. You're right, Puerto Rico is a part of this country, what a shame that they are so narrow minded as well! Maybe I don't feel that way b/c I was born and raised right here! Well, anyway, good luck to you and thank you for giving me more insight into Florida.
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:56 AM
 
Location: Orlando Florida
1,352 posts, read 5,679,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ2FL View Post
Thank you for explaining the situation to me a little better. You're right about the fact that I don't know from experience what's going on in Miami right now. I see your point, I wasn't trying to say that all immigrants/foreignors are innocent, AT ALL! But, I guess I'm so tired of seeing us put into different groups and categories based on race. I know not a lot of people feel the way I do, it's just a sad world that we live in right now. Being a Puerto Rican American myself, (I'm 50% puerto rican and German & Turkish) I have to say I'm very dissappointed to hear that Puerto Ricans act that way in Orlando or any place at all. You're right, Puerto Rico is a part of this country, what a shame that they are so narrow minded as well! Maybe I don't feel that way b/c I was born and raised right here! Well, anyway, good luck to you and thank you for giving me more insight into Florida.


I know exactly where the problem in Orlando comes from.......There are lots of older generation Puerto Ricans that i have no problems with......i mean that and even some younger ones....I actually think the ones that are straight from Puerto Rico are cool.....but there is the Puerto Ricans that just make the whole race look bad as in every race in the world......and in Orlando there are alot of those people......


I think the problem in Orlando is coming from a mix of poverty, homesickness, and pride in the Puerto RIcan population here......I had the same problem as these people have here at this time, but my situation happened about 9-10 years ago after i moved from Miami to Nashville...in Miami i was around gangsters in my neighborhood and school and was surrounded by people of all races and i saw alot of things that you could hear about in rap music and did some things that im ashamed of too....i never killed anyone or beat anyone just because i wanted to have respect but i did do some juvinile things because of the people that i was flooded by in school and my neighborhoodz.....i remember my brother who was selling drugs down there and was in a gang....well he came in the house one night after being jumped by some gang out there and he had a broken jaw and a big stick mark on his back.......Well i saw alot of crap and actually me and my family lived from a station wagon going across country as a kid and had to get public assistance before too......


So when i moved to Nashville after all that....i thought i could be the man up there and i always tryed to show people where i was from by putting Miami stickers on my car and in my house when people would come over ..ect.....but i learned that i was only focusing on trying to prove to a crowd (people in NASHVILLE) how much Miami was better than Nashville well that got me in trouble and i almost got jumped by some gang in Nashville actually (long story)...i never thought that a country place like Nashville could have any thing like that but i was humbled and realized that i wasnt the man because i was from here or there.....after that i also tryed to find the positives in NASHVILLE and tryed to stop proving to everybody where i was from because really no one cares up there....they dont go home and think about how Miami is and about what i said....they only know of Nashville so i decided to enjoy my life there and anywhere i am at without trying to be too pridefull about anything because that doesnt really matter anymore....i have a certain amount of pride but not like im trying to make somewhere else feel like they are on a lower level


Well the problem here in Orlando is that alot of these Puerto Rican kids that come from NY and other places up north have the same kind of pride i had as a teenager about Miami and they come here in numbers so that makes it to where they will never be humbled and actually want to assimilate to where they are at now because if someone says other than what they belive then they have so much back up from the thousands that have moved here like them and they dont change....they just keep living the same way and try to bring that here into the culture of Orlando.....one thing i can say is that there aren't any of them that live in Pine Hills in Orlando (which is the real ghetto here) so they wont ever be tested here......


I also think there are other factors but pride plays a big role when people are homesick and it shows in the NY and PR stickers and flags everywhere in Orlando


I respect you NJ2FL for saying you didnt know as much about things as I knew in this situation and that is what real men and women do .....and what ido to when im wrong.....so God Bless you

Last edited by THASPECIAL; 10-04-2007 at 02:06 AM..
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:32 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
35 posts, read 97,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilybeans View Post
Name five.
Switzerland (which has 3), Italy (German is the primary language in Trentino Alto-Adige, also called South Tirol Region), Spain (Catalan in Barcelona), most North-West African countries (Arab and French), Egypt (English and Arab). China of course (Mandarin and Cantonese).
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Concord, California.
430 posts, read 1,258,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newyorker2 View Post
How so many people on this thread complain about Hispanics not wanting to assimilate in the US or learn to speak the language when most Americans go to other countries and the first thing that frustrates them is " nobody speaks English around here??". Americans for some reason seem to have no respect for other cultures outside of their own when in reality... what exactly IS American culture?? This is a land where everyone that is here emmigrated from another country but yet seem to have this superior attitude towards outsiders/foreigners! Isnt it also funny how when Americans get in trouble in other countries the first thing they scream is "I'm an American"!

Moderator cut: racist coments and insults are not allowed on this forum
If you go back far enough in time, -every land is a land of immigrants. It's a matter of how far. Most people in the U.S. are NOT immigrants, nor descendants of recent immigrants. Having immigrant ansestry dose NOT make one an immigrant, nor make one part of the culture or cultures of one's ancestors. People change over the generations. Bigotry and overgeneralizing are unfortunate aspects of human reality, all over the world.

The U.S. has a unique native culture, but it is of course complex with much internal diversity fitting such a large and diverse country. But most of those born in the U.S., especially by the third generation, regardless of race or Hispanic or not, are more alike than diferant in culture, especially compered to most people in most other countries. To say otherwise to express a profound ignorance of the true nature of the U.S. What we lack enough of but need more of is a since of greater national unity, and to become more self suficiant and less materialistic. Then you wouldn't see so many "wars for oil", other interfering in other countries business etc..

Assimilation or even acculturation takes time, however. Too many immigrants all at once or over too long a steady time period can be very disruptive and cause major problems. Mass European immigration of the past only "worked" becuase it stopped-!!! -Otherwise it would have been a disaster, and there was plenty of xenophobia at the time that most now seem to be unaware of. Illegal immigration from anywhere is a problem for obvious reasons, but so too is too much legal immigration I believe.

now, as far as many americans being arrogant or racist, and over-generalizing/thinking that Hispanics never assimilate/don't want to learn English, -yes that happens. The U.S. is unfortunately an imperialist empire, among other things. I oppose the war in Iraq as only one example of this.

Unfortunately bigotry is common in every culture, -certainly it is common in Latin America. It is all over the world. Stereotypes can be true up too a point (or sometimes not-depends) but they tend to get greatly exaggerated. It is over generalization (not all generalization, just OVER doing it) that is the problem, -and just intolerance for difference. But I believe national sovereignty and social stability are important and valid as well, thus I would prefer less immigration, as well a crack down on the illegal kind.

But I also hate it when people conflate Hispanics with all being immigrants or worse yet illegal, when actualy almost half of the adults are NOT immigrants, and the majority of them are 3+ generation and they do speak English. I have had Mexican american friends all my life, and I am sensitive to them being targeted for hate. But I cannot stand the open borders neoliberal crowd now, and the many illegal immigrants and others who show no respect for U.S. sovereignty.

I think nativism is valid, but not when it devolves into racism or bigotry, as it all too often does. But the open borders crowd also shows a LOT of bigotry themselves, especially when trying to define anyone who does not agree with them as a bigot. -Emil.
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