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Old 10-05-2007, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Concord, California.
430 posts, read 1,259,940 times
Reputation: 89

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Quote:
Originally Posted by THASPECIAL View Post
I have a comment on the thing about learning English.........Why would hispanics think that they shouldn't have to learn english while living in the U.S.?......I know alot have learned it but there are some who refuse.......Blacks had to learn English after being forced to come over here during the slavery era....so what makes hispanic immigrants nowadays so special?......Italians had to learn english to....and everyone else that has a history in America has adopted English living here in America...why do hispanics say we are being racist ....and when hispanics say "we" are being racist it means all people who have adopted the english language while living through generations in america....it means hispanics are saying that white irish, white italians , Germans, blacks, french americans, asian americans are being racists....ect.
I don't think most hispanics think it is racist to speak only English, or to want immigrants to learn English over time. It is more intolerance for bilingualism, as well as ignorant double standards, that upset many as far as language goes. 45% of adult hispanics in the U.S. were born here and almost all of them speak English, -40% ONLY speak English. A large number of Mexicans settled in the U.S. southwest from 1910-1928 after the secund Mexican revolution. In 1900 there was already close to half a million in the country, largely in Texas, New Mexico, and southern Colorado. So many hispanics have in fact lived here for generations, -much of the rapid grouth over time has been do to high fertility (which used to be much higher and has since diminished even among hispanics.), -not just among immigrants.

Today, large scale ILLEGAL immigration is what makes things so much diferant. There is now far more disire to move to the U.S. in Latin America, -but while before 1968 there were no quotas on immigration to the U.S. from the western hemisphere, now there is so legal immigration opportunities are much less. Now, I believe immigration must be limited, we are far more populous now than back then, -things have changed. But a lot of people in other countries don't see in that way. or just don't care, -as with much of the financial and political elite in the U.S.

A lot of immigrants struggle to learn a new language, and many in the working class never do. Again, this is NOT something new, and is not unique to hispanic immigrants. That idea that it is is perceived as bigotry by many, understandably so. now for those who see any objection to open borders as bigotry, well, that is a quite a diferant matter. -Emil.
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Old 10-05-2007, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 2,979,458 times
Reputation: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newyorker2 View Post
How so many people on this thread complain about Hispanics not wanting to assimilate in the US or learn to speak the language when most Americans go to other countries and the first thing that frustrates them is " nobody speaks English around here??". Americans for some reason seem to have no respect for other cultures outside of their own when in reality... what exactly IS American culture?? This is a land where everyone that is here emmigrated from another country but yet seem to have this superior attitude towards outsiders/foreigners! Isnt it also funny how when Americans get in trouble in other countries the first thing they scream is "I'm an American"!

Moderator cut: racist coments and insults are not allowed on this forum
This anti-illegal American speaks four languages. Looks like your assumptions are incorrect, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for the laugh though.
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Old 10-05-2007, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Concord, California.
430 posts, read 1,259,940 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00 View Post
Wow, your view seems to be very narrow minded. A person's culture is their ancestry, their background. The girl comes from a multicultural background and its important for her to be aware of that and celebrate that, regardless of where she was born.
Celebrating that is not the problem with US today. Bigotry and prejudice is the problem. This country started out by Europeans taking over the Native American's land. It was foreigners who started this country. The US is just a bunch of French, Irish, Africans, etc. And now you have a problem with that?It seems you want to take all the multicultural aspects out and make it all one. Should we make it all one religion too? Maybe become a totalitarian state? Unbelievable.
A persons culture MAY be their ancestry, -but especially when cultures blend or or just exist in a new location for a long time, -they change-!!! There IS indeed an overall broad U.S. culture that is unique to the U.S., and is NOT just the sum of it's parts-!! But it is complex and has many regional, ethnic, class etc.. based subcultures within it, -partly separate, but still with more in common than not for those born here (With some exceptions of coarse.) in terms of culture. Unfortunately, identity politics are such here that a lot of people often don't see it that way.

In addition, the U.S. ALSO has many foreign immigrant cultures within it, -as well as many bi cultural hybrids. So, it is complex, -it is not either or, it is BOTH-!!!!! -Emil.

Last edited by bigtallredhead; 10-05-2007 at 04:02 PM..
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:22 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,802,339 times
Reputation: 6264
Gee when I go to a foreign country for even a weekend I try to learn as much of the language as possible, at least the niceties such as: hello, please, thank you, excuse me, can you help me, where is, I would like, etc.

I think people get upset when illegals don't even learn the most basic words..I mean do we really need a sign that says 'escuela'?
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:41 PM
 
537 posts, read 312,780 times
Reputation: 182
What is worse than n ot learning is the fact of so many who speak and understand English but play the card that they don't understand or speak English. This goes on a lot in this country. Those of us who know Spanish hear about this all of the time.
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:12 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,622,827 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newyorker2 View Post
This is a land where everyone that is here emmigrated from another country
[ [/mod]
Sorry, but I hear this a lot on this forum. I'm here, and I haven't "emmigrated" from another country; nor did my parents, siblings, or most others I know. It's true that sometime in the past the ANCESTORS of most of us "immigrated" here....but, if you want to play that game, ALL of us probably had ancestors who lived in trees, at some point. I don't see what ancestry has to do with anything; most Americans, at the present time, were born in America; they are not immigrants. This is not a "land of immigrants"...it's a "land of the descendants of immigrants"----
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Doral/Miami
94 posts, read 90,249 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzycue View Post
You know, I have been reading the Miami post for a while, and although I also have posted some negatives about Miami, this is really getting old. I am tired of seeing how people just run away when things get ugly instead of fighting for what they believe is right! (And please, no offense! I am one of those people who were ready to move out of here, but now am stuck!) If this continues, Miami, California and NY will no longer be a part of the US....Why do we have to flee? Are we just giving away our beautiful cities to immigrants? Why don't we fight to make Miami what it use to be instead of whining and whining about how bad this city has become? Why don't we do something about what is happening here? Do you really think that we will solve anything by just whining and complaining about how bad Miami is right now, and how worse it will be getting in the future...I wish people would gather together and do something about it! I wish the good people that made this beautiful city would come back and make it what it use to be....WHY DO AMERICANS ALWAYS JUST LEAVE? I do not like Miami either, but I am stuck in this jungle, and will just have to make the best of it and find people who share my same interest! I really would like Miami to turn back into that paradise city it once use to be, but we will not solve anything by bashing the Sh** out of Miami! I think we have scared everyone into moving to Miami because of all the CRAP that is said! Miami is still the US!! This is STILL OUR COUNTTRY! STOP RUNNING AWAY and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!
I agree but the board is for posting and people like to comment on what they dont like about Miami and they should . I hope many email the politicians get involved
As Cuban American I speak Spanish but I wouldnt live in Miami if I didnt . Its impossible.
I wouldnt want to be non hispanic in Miami . I believe in affirmative action here for NON hispanics .
My company gave me the option of moving here from NY while back there is not 1 non Hispanic in the co I work for here in Miami.
Thats just wrong if shoe was on other foot it wouldnt be tolerated . In Miami you have non Hispanic discrimination .
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Old 10-05-2007, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newyorker2 View Post
OK first, let me THANK everyone who has replied to this post! I am new to this forum and dont know how to follow up on my post but i have read soo many valid points from this post that it reminds me why technology rocks! The beauty of the US is that we are all entitled to our own opinion and its great to see how we can all agree to disagree on the topic of immigration.

The last thing that I want to remind everyone..( i may be off for a few weeks, will be traveling with no direct access to email) is that 2 out of 50 states acquired by America, Puerto Rico and Hawaii, both had their own languages when acquired.. Therefore realize that the Puerto Ricans living in the U.S. are considered Americans and that Spanish has also been added as an official language in the US! Not sure if everyone had realized that! Too many "spanish speaking immigrants"...guess what.. a lot of them are U.S. citizens just like you and jsut like you shouldnt be forced to speak another language because of them... shouldnt the same rules apply for them?

Although the Hawaiian language itself is slowly but surely dying, it should also be considered part of U>S Culture! Which brings me back to my point about the "assimilation" question. Is it just the speakers of another language that refuse to assimilate?? Or could it be that Americans dont wish to assimilate to "other" languages and cultures either??
English is the de facto lingua franca of the world today-----and, will likely remain that way for the next 50-100 years.

Prior to WW II French and to a lesser extent German were major languages.

And the cold reality is except for Spain and its former colonies; Spanish is not widely spoken.
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Old 10-05-2007, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valea View Post
I agree but the board is for posting and people like to comment on what they dont like about Miami and they should . I hope many email the politicians get involved
As Cuban American I speak Spanish but I wouldnt live in Miami if I didnt . Its impossible.
I wouldnt want to be non hispanic in Miami . I believe in affirmative action here for NON hispanics .
My company gave me the option of moving here from NY while back there is not 1 non Hispanic in the co I work for here in Miami.
Thats just wrong if shoe was on other foot it wouldnt be tolerated . In Miami you have non Hispanic discrimination .
And the irony is that the 'pure' Spanish in Miami may be dying out------to the point that the Spanish language audio-visual media are importing Argentines, etc.

For the record: I do not believe in any 'affirmative action' based upon race/ethnicity.
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Old 10-05-2007, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunandsand View Post
This English/Spanish debate is outdated. The hispanic population is on pace to pass the non-hispanic white population within the next 20 years. The vast majority of these Spanish speaking folks are law abiding people with solid incomes and families.

Many countries do just fine with 2 major lanquages.

Those of you who can not change and adapt to America becoming an English and Spanish mutually spoken country will simply frustrate yourselves and your kids.

It is what it is, a changing country.
I disagree:

In fact; the state of California has revised downward its projected population growth numbers due to the plummeting birthrate among Hispanic people.

Mexico's birthrate is down to 2.4 children per woman (replacement level is 2.1)------down from the 5.7 kids average as recently as 1975!

Spain; which is Hispanic (barely), has a birthrate of 1.3 children per woman------and, too is dealing with a massive illegal immigrant influx of its own to the point it asked for help from the rest of the EU countries.

As for the two language thing: unless one tongue is dominant; countries tend to fracture along linguistic lines------Belgium may be the next example. And there is the possibility that Quebec may try to secede-----which would hurt that Canadian province badly, it would be surrounded by English speakers. Besides; Quebec's population would be facing decline except for immigration.

Last edited by ArizonaBear; 10-05-2007 at 10:59 PM..
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