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Old 09-22-2006, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,694,959 times
Reputation: 2086

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Quote:
Originally Posted by grammy164 View Post
I say a wall, a patrol (national guard with guns), and extremely stiff penalties to the employers who hire illegals. I don't think you understand though, MarkS. Illegals aren't all just nice people trying to find a decent job. Many, many deal in drugs, are menbers of gangs and break a lot more laws than just crossing the border.
with guns and allowed to shoot!!!!!!

 
Old 09-22-2006, 11:21 AM
 
1,104 posts, read 3,058,858 times
Reputation: 571
Absolutely. I don't think people understand what a danger it is for the men that guard our border.
 
Old 09-22-2006, 11:36 AM
 
20,308 posts, read 37,797,930 times
Reputation: 18082
Default My Plan to Solve Illegal Immigration

Agree. I want this problem fixed. The business community and ultra-conservatives will hate my solution, which is:

- Stop all illegal infiltration. A wall, a fence, electronic means, whatever. On the south and the north.
- Pay our own US Citizens a Living Wage, about $9.50 per hour.
- Every CITIZEN who works (plus kids, invalids, retirees) gets health care.
- Pay illegals to go home. Each one going back VOLUNTARILY get $250.00 when they get off the plane or bus back home.
- Buy their household items or ship them back for them.
- Illegals returning home VOLUNTARILY under this plan go to the top of a list for later re-entry as legal immigrants.
- For people hiring illegals, assess steep fines, jail time for repeat offenders, loss of business licenses, etc.

Discussion of above.

Americans cannot afford to work for mininum wage and no benefits, you can't rent anywhere on that, buy food, clothing, or medical care. My sister drove all the way across Baltimore for a job paying $10/hour and health benefits. The drive was too much, she gave up and sits at home waiting to turn 62 and get Social Security. She'd gladly walk up the street and sling burgers for a Living Wage and medical benefits. Of course, fast food don't pay that. Millions of Americans sit it out rather than go backwards on minimum wage poverty. Illegals come here and work for about minimum wage, with no benefits, no rights, no Workers Comp. Nothing.

As long as companies get away with hiring illegals, by whatever transparent lies provide them an appearance of "plausible deniability" (but I didn't KNOW the sub-contractor was using illegals - oh sure) they will continue to do it.

Illegals are glad to get here and take these jobs. It's better than the state of nothingness they had back home. As long as they do that, our Americans will sit it out, or lose lots of actual construction & other work to illegals.

If we make it worthwhile for Americans to work, with a living wage and benefits, they'll do it. Millions will rejoin the workforce and fill jobs now using illegals. People would work, but it isn't possible in the current rigged game that works against our citizens. If we give our own people the basic dignity that we all should have in our work, they WILL pickup the trash, scrub the toilets, mow lawns, paint houses, etc.

For 20 years, since the 1986 amnesty, 10 different US Congresses have been sworn in, plus 5 Presidential Inaugerations (1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004). None solved the border problem. Not the Dems. Not the GOP with their Contract for America in 1994. None of them. They take the campaign money of corporate America and ultra-conservatives (whose plan is to break all labor unions, etc) and winked at the border. Now we have a crisis looming. Millions of illegals are sick & tired of being taken advantage of and being on the short end of the stick. This could get ugly if not handled respectfully.

The gap between rich and poor has widened in the past several years and is getting worse. This is a recipe for disaster, rioting, burned cities. Seen it before when people were treated badly and denied human dignity & decency. In today's Washington Post, there's a story about how this year, for the first time, all 400 of the wealthiest Amercians in Forbes annual survey, all 400 are billionaires. That would be okay if the tide of money was raising everyone's boat, but it isn't. Rough sailing ahead.....

Getting Americans back to work will put millions of illegals out of work. The second half of the fix is to get them back home. We cannot round them up at gunpoint, like they did 5-6 years ago when they broke down the door of that house in Miami to remove Elian Gonzales and return him to his father back in Cuba. That's a ludicrous image and it won't work. Our nation will look as despicable as the Gestapo in WW-II, taking people at gunpoint. Yuck.

They came here for the incentive to work and will respond to incentives to go home. If they voluntarily get with the plan to go home, we will put them at the top of the list to come back later as legal aliens on a track to citizen ship. I would meet them at the border and thank them for coming here to have done our dirty work, our hard work, our heavy lifting, wish them well, thank them for going home voluntarily and hope they come back someday as legal aliens and become citizens.

But if we have to go out and find them, they go home without a cash incentive, and go on a list to never re-enter legally.

It will cost money, but costs a lot of money now for them to stay here (schools, health care in the emergency rooms of your local hospitals, police, social services, the list goes on). So we can pay to do the right thing, or keep paying for the wrong things.

It's up to our leadership to fix the mess. We have to beat on them, hard and often, to get their attention, else nothing will change.

s/Mike

Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-22-2006 at 12:06 PM.. Reason: brevity
 
Old 09-22-2006, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 11,895,182 times
Reputation: 2000001281
Walls actually can work. The Israelis built a very successful wall between themselves and the Palestinians and guess what? No more suicide bombers! The Palestinians are complaining because they "can't" get into Israel now. A wall could be very effective, especially if it's the triple fence that's being talked about, but, it will require constant patrolling as well. The first thing to do is hold businesses that employ illegal aliens accountable. If they are caught with illegal employees, then they should be HEAVILY penalized with any further occurences being severe fines and jail time. Once we stop the employers from being able to break the law, those who come here illegally won't find work. Those who are here will go home. We also need to stop exempting Mexicans from instant deportation if they're farther than 100 miles of the border. Every other nationality gets instantly deported, but we exempt Mexicans outside the 100 mile distance of the border for some reason. That has to stop. I'm all for legal immigration, but we don't owe Mexico, Germany, China, Tonga, ...whoever... residency in this country. We should be smart about who we let in and let them be from anywhere, but make sure they have skills that will help America and not drain our resources. Like I've said elsewhere, like many other people in November, in order to make my displeasure with current failure to implement adequate immigration controls a reality and because I despise the amnesty solution, I am voting only on the Immigration issue in November. Whoever voted for Amnesty I will vote for his or her opponent. That's it.
 
Old 09-22-2006, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
944 posts, read 3,575,952 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregsbabe1 View Post
...they should be punished, breaking our laws!
The real law-breakers who are causing most of the immigration are American citizens --- those who hire illegals and those who buy drugs imported by illegals. But politicians are cowards and won't go after the corporations and other employers who make it so easy to come to America and get a job without a visa or green card. Corporations OWN America. Don't blame impoverished desperate immigrants for their own desire to EAT and FEED THEIR FAMILIES!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
- Pay our own US Citizens a Living Wage, about $9.50 per hour.
- Every CITIZEN who works (plus kids, invalids, retirees) gets health care.
- Pay illegals to go home. Each one going back VOLUNTARILY get $250.00 when they get off the plane or bus back home.
- Buy their household items or ship them back for them.
I like a lot of what you say as an ideal but it's unrealistic. Inequality WITHIN our borders is a huge problem, but inequality ACROSS borders is vastly worse and thus will put immense pressure on all "developed" nations as the billions of poor try to break in to get a piece of the pie.

Keep in mind that the wealth that made Europe and North America so prosperous has historically been derived in large part from the backs of laborers and resources in impoverished nations. A big chunk of our foreign policy in the USA is still devoted to controlling other governments, even as we invade nations in the name of "spreading freedom and democracy."

And now, I'm ready for the people who are about to say "If you hate America then why don't you leave!!!" Always the genius response to ANY argument with our purchased --- errrr --- elected leaders.
 
Old 09-22-2006, 06:36 PM
 
1,104 posts, read 3,058,858 times
Reputation: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark View Post
Whoever voted for Amnesty I will vote for his or her opponent. That's it.
Mo Mark--we may not agree on spinach, but we do agree on this one! So now how about that meatloaf recipe. My favorite meal is meatloaf, macaroni and cheese and broccoli!
 
Old 09-22-2006, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Nowhere near Elko, NV
246 posts, read 204,146 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
The Berlin Wall and the DMZ are NOT meant to keep illegals out. They were built to keep legals in. (And they're not even very good at that.) BIG DIFFERENCE!
So the 2nd Infantry Division walks the DMZ to keep the S. Koreans from flooding into the People's Paradise, eh? Either way, they were built as barriers to human movement.

And facts don't agree with your parenthetical comment. After more than 53 years in Korea, less than 200 crossers. In E. Germany, maybe a few thousand. Using any measure that's a pretty effective barrier.

Magpies

Last edited by MagpiesMagpiesMagpies; 09-22-2006 at 07:39 PM..
 
Old 09-22-2006, 08:48 PM
 
311 posts, read 549,502 times
Reputation: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Agree. I want this problem fixed. The business community and ultra-conservatives will hate my solution, which is:

- Stop all illegal infiltration. A wall, a fence, electronic means, whatever. On the south and the north.
- Pay our own US Citizens a Living Wage, about $9.50 per hour.
- Every CITIZEN who works (plus kids, invalids, retirees) gets health care.
- Pay illegals to go home. Each one going back VOLUNTARILY get $250.00 when they get off the plane or bus back home.
- Buy their household items or ship them back for them.
- Illegals returning home VOLUNTARILY under this plan go to the top of a list for later re-entry as legal immigrants.
- For people hiring illegals, assess steep fines, jail time for repeat offenders, loss of business licenses, etc.

Discussion of above.

Illegals are glad to get here and take these jobs. It's better than the state of nothingness they had back home. As long as they do that, our Americans will sit it out, or lose lots of actual construction & other work to illegals.

If we make it worthwhile for Americans to work, with a living wage and benefits, they'll do it. Millions will rejoin the workforce and fill jobs now using illegals. People would work, but it isn't possible in the current rigged game that works against our citizens. If we give our own people the basic dignity that we all should have in our work, they WILL pickup the trash, scrub the toilets, mow lawns, paint houses, etc.

Now we have a crisis looming. Millions of illegals are sick & tired of being taken advantage of and being on the short end of the stick. This could get ugly if not handled respectfully.

Getting Americans back to work will put millions of illegals out of work. The second half of the fix is to get them back home. We cannot round them up at gunpoint, like they did 5-6 years ago when they broke down the door of that house in Miami to remove Elian Gonzales and return him to his father back in Cuba. That's a ludicrous image and it won't work. Our nation will look as despicable as the Gestapo in WW-II, taking people at gunpoint. Yuck.

They came here for the incentive to work and will respond to incentives to go home. If they voluntarily get with the plan to go home, we will put them at the top of the list to come back later as legal aliens on a track to citizen ship. I would meet them at the border and thank them for coming here to have done our dirty work, our hard work, our heavy lifting, wish them well, thank them for going home voluntarily and hope they come back someday as legal aliens and become citizens.

It will cost money, but costs a lot of money now for them to stay here (schools, health care in the emergency rooms of your local hospitals, police, social services, the list goes on). So we can pay to do the right thing, or keep paying for the wrong things.


s/Mike

Oh, Mike....where to start? First the ILLEGALS "are glad to get here and get a job because it is better than the state of nothingness they had at home." Then these same ILLEGALS are getting "sick and tired of being taken advantage of??" and so this could probably "get ugly if not handled respectively??"

I am glad to see the someone has finally, FINALLY admited that the ILLEGALS are taking millions of jobs from Americans!

Now, if you think the poor criminals who are "getting sick and tired of being taken advantage" of will voluntarily take $250.00 and go south to "nothingness" (without free health care, no schooling....) then I suggest you buy a ticket to the border and plan to stay a loooong time because the same hand you shake as you thank that criminal for breaking the law and coming here, will be right back heading north in a very short time with an outstretched hand!
 
Old 09-23-2006, 04:55 AM
 
54 posts, read 287,433 times
Reputation: 39
This could be solved very simply by putting heavy fines on the people who hire them!!! and inforcing that by them being here is breaking the law!!! Why do crimminals have so many rights!!! In our area there are so many that they are crowding our county jails (now they have to build a new one) and law inforcement just lets them go because its a waste of everyone's time. Nothing happens to these people! They drive without drivers licenses and no insurance, they use our schools and they get health care!!!! The ones that are here have as many kids as they can and they pack about twenty people in a house that only has two bedrooms! whats up with that?! I'm all for letting people come into this country but I feel they must do it legally. Just like I have to do everything else. LEGALLY!
 
Old 09-23-2006, 08:02 AM
 
504 posts, read 1,619,324 times
Reputation: 324
We want a wall for the Latinos, what about all the Chinese that are smuggled in? What about all the people that overstay thier visas? What about the Arab population coming in from Canada that work in all the little convenience stores across this country. We want to fine all the business that hire them, alot of the businesses that hire them are not even known to be businesses and a lot of them are so big, the legal mess that would ensue would be extremely costly. What do we do with all the children that were born here and are American citizens? As long as this country has jobs and opportunities people will come. A solution?
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