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Old 07-03-2012, 09:05 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,099,270 times
Reputation: 2199

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Over the weekend I saw several Dems try and say the tax in Obamacare is a penalty on "free riders". I thought that was an odd choice of words coming from Dems consider they affinity for illegals and Great Society programs.

Why don't Dems call illegals and those on welfare free riders?




Read more: Pelosi ready to defend Obamacare - UPI.com
Pelosi's statement is incorrect.

It is a TAX. If the IRS is involve than its a tax.
This Obamacare was upheld as a tax.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:08 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
The people who keep making the assertion have yet to show any proof that illegals vote in meaningful numbers, let alone constitute a "base"
In fact, there is no logical scenario wherein an illegal would risk prosecution and deportation by committing voting fraud. Something tells me their priorities are elsewhere.
Chain illegal immigration

The children of those who have been trespassing since 1986 are now of voting age. ALL of them.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,291,186 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Oh lordy not the ole crop picking argument again. Only 3% of illegal aliens are picking crops. The other 97% are doing jobs that Americans have always done. Even for crop picking there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign crop pickers.

No, the blame is on the illegals by entering our country illegally in the first place. Everything else that happens afterwards is a big fat negative. Why do you keep ignoring and playing down their initial unlawful act of coming here illegally like it is irrelevant or something?

Your right as usual? the problems is brought upon by those lawless creatures, entering this Country illegally, what other Country would allow such NONESENSE! And award them in the same breath. None that i can think of.

And an administration, that gives them credit, for breaking the law, WTF is this crap anyways.

So obvious that some wish to turn a blinds eye to those who are breaking the law to get here, of course to some, it is irrelevant, better to them that way.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,248,644 times
Reputation: 1724
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Chain illegal immigration

The children of those who have been trespassing since 1986 are now of voting age. ALL of them.
Well, until they change the law, anchor babies are legal citizens and they have as much right to vote as every other American citizen, so that's not even a good example, let alone proof of illegal voting.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
Well, until they change the law, anchor babies are legal citizens and they have as much right to vote as every other American citizen, so that's not even a good example, let alone proof of illegal voting.
Anchor babies are assumed to be legal citizens, at best they might be US Nationals. Birth on US soil does not automatically make one a US Citizen as a birth certificate has no nationality or status on it of the child nor of the parent(s). Hence it is only the beginning of an ID for the person. A US Passport is the only ID that will prove actual Citizenship status as it will state inside of it that this person is a US National/Citizen, otherwise it will only state that one is a US National within it. To get a US Passport requires at least 2 forms that the State Department recognizes and it is up to them to determine whether one is a Citizen or not. For State voting purposes, one is assumed to be a US Citizen simply by being and living here and being a resident of the state in which one is living.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,248,644 times
Reputation: 1724
If you're born in the US, you are a citizen at birth. There is no process you have to go through (Unless your parents are diplomats or part of an occupying military force)

If people don't like that law, they should say so, and set out to change it via the processes available to the American people, rather than make the false claim that these anchor baby voters are "illegals"
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:03 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
If you're born in the US, you are a citizen at birth. There is no process you have to go through (Unless your parents are diplomats or part of an occupying military force)

If people don't like that law, they should say so, and set out to change it via the processes available to the American people, rather than make the false claim that these anchor baby voters are "illegals"
Law? What law? Surely you don't think the 14th Amendment is "the law". You need to understand exactly what defines citizenship, as it isn't Wong Kim Ark or Plyler vs Doe. Only the DoS can determine who is and is not a citizen. Simple birth here is not proof enough, sorry. Your scenario "assumes", it doesn't mandate.

These "anchor baby" voters may be US Nationals at best, but what they are not are US Citizens.
Quote:
Usually a state-issued birth certificate is sufficient to establish U.S. nationality,” says Michael Kirby, a senior official for consular affairs at the State Department.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 07-03-2012 at 05:29 PM..
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,248,644 times
Reputation: 1724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Law? What law? Surely you don't think the 14th Amendment is "the law". You need to understand exactly what defines citizenship, as it isn't Wong Kim Ark or Plyler vs Doe. Only the DoS can determine who is and is not a citizen. Simple birth here is not proof enough, sorry. Your scenario "assumes", it doesn't mandate.

These "anchor baby" voters may be US Nationals at best, but what they are not are US Citizens.
You're wrong


To become a citizen at birth, you must:

Have been born in the United States or certain territories or outlying possessions of the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States; OR
had a parent or parents who were citizens at the time of your birth (if you were born abroad) and meet other requirements

Source

Says nothing at all about being a "national"
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:10 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
You're wrong


To become a citizen at birth, you must:

Have been born in the United States or certain territories or outlying possessions of the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States; OR
had a parent or parents who were citizens at the time of your birth (if you were born abroad) and meet other requirements

Source

Says nothing at all about being a "national"
I'm wrong? I see, you can't comprehend the info. A requirement to be a US Citizen is to have been born in the US and or to parents who are either US Citizens or are here legally, it is but a requirement. Now, requirements are but things needed to qualify, therefor it is but only one thing to be born here, which by itself does not confer US Citizenship. I suggest we place the first lines in your failed comment: If you meet certain requirements, you may become a U.S. citizen either at birth or after birth. I don't know, if and may aren't definitive.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,248,644 times
Reputation: 1724
You should probably do your research before you make yourself look stupid.

From my source (The IRS, who I would assume is more of an authority than you are)

U.S. Citizen:

An individual born in the United States.
An individual whose parent is a U.S. citizen.*
A former alien who has been naturalized as a U.S. citizen
An individual born in Puerto Rico.
An individual born in Guam.
An individual born in the U.S. Virgin Islands.


In other words, if you're born in the USA, citizenship is conferred upon you at birth.
If you're born in some US territories, you may be a national, but not a citizen.
If you're born in the USA proper, PR, Guam or the USVI you are a citizen and a national.

More reading on the subject if you're still feeling herp derp about it:

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > Sec. 1401.
Sec. 1401. - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property; When “citizens” move their domicile outside of the territorial limits of the “state” to which they are a member and cease to participate directly in the political functions of that “state”, however, they become “nationals” but not “citizens” under federal law. This is confirmed by the definition of “citizen of the United States” found in Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment.:


I can't believe I have to explain basic civics to you.

Last edited by quigboto; 07-03-2012 at 10:09 PM..
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