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Old 07-06-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,573 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Ya think? There are Social Security numbers that are not work-authorized. Alien Registration numbers are also not proof of work-authorization, as non-immigrant visas (when an I-765 is typically not filed) and even many (possibly former) illegal aliens have them (from going through removal proceedings).
I was simply adding to your comment.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,254,741 times
Reputation: 1724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You're F'n Hilarious. So now some flyer, as put out by USCIS, is definitive proof! Dude, you still haven't grasped anything nor have you proven anything. As I stated, it's open to interpretation depending on the administration that is in power. What are you not understanding? You are aware that the BO admin changed the FAM that DoS uses in 2009 to read that children of illegals should be recognized as citizens if born here, aren't you? http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf Then you should be aware that that "ascriptive ideology" will change once a consensualist is back in charge. I even gave you a direct quote from a USCIS Senior Official stating that a birth certificate for a birth on US soil is usually enough to establish US Nationality, not US Citizenship. Now, would you like to re-phrase your inept claim that I continue to provide me (you) your (my) opinions and interpretations (chuckle).

You have yet to prove me wrong, you are unyet to prove you right. I did provide an example of someone born in the US being denied citizenship because of their parents being illegals (go back to comment #46), here's that link again. They Say They Were Born in the U.S.A. The State Department Says Prove It - WSJ.com

I think this part of the article makes it very clear what I have stated and shownEven after he obtained and submitted his birth certificate, Baptismal, and school records, he was still denied US CITIZENSHIP!
You prove my point. From your own article: "upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S."............."
They find his proof of birth in the US suspect. What is so hard for you to grasp about that? They aren't saying he can't be a citizen because of his parent's immigration status, they are denying him citizenship because they feel he has failed to sufficiently prove he was born in the USA, which, in their eyes, is the determining factor of whether or not he is a citizen.

Again, it seems you don't even know what point you're trying to argue!
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:52 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,573 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
You prove my point. From your own article: "upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S."............."
They find his proof of birth in the US suspect. What is so hard for you to grasp about that? They aren't saying he can't be a citizen because of his parent's immigration status, they are denying him citizenship because they feel he has failed to sufficiently prove he was born in the USA, which, in their eyes, is the determining factor of whether or not he is a citizen.

Again, it seems you don't even know what point you're trying to argue!
Again it seems you missed the point. As I stated from the beginning, a US Birth Certificate and being born on US soil is not enough proof to be a US citizen. Look, this guy even submitted baptismal and school records and was still denied citizenship. His proof, according to you in all your comments and your links, should have been sufficient, remember you kept insisting that everyone born on US soil was by virtue of birth a US Citizen, funny how now you are claiming to have been right all along. So thanks for finally agreeing with me, it wasn't hard it just took you a while.

Now why do you think his documents were suspect? ANSWER: because his mom was an illegal who gave birth through a mid-wife supposedly on this side of the border. The mid-wife even submitted the documents to Hidalgo County correctly and he was still denied US Citizenship even after producing a birth certificate, Baptismal records and school records. It doesn't get any more simple or plain than that.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,254,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Again it seems you missed the point. As I stated from the beginning, a US Birth Certificate and being born on US soil is not enough proof to be a US citizen. Look, this guy even submitted baptismal and school records and was still denied citizenship. His proof, according to you in all your comments and your links, should have been sufficient, remember you kept insisting that everyone born on US soil was by virtue of birth a US Citizen, funny how now you are claiming to have been right all along. So thanks for finally agreeing with me, it wasn't hard it just took you a while.

Now why do you think his documents were suspect? ANSWER: because his mom was an illegal who gave birth through a mid-wife supposedly on this side of the border. The mid-wife even submitted the documents to Hidalgo County correctly and he was still denied US Citizenship even after producing a birth certificate, Baptismal records and school records. It doesn't get any more simple or plain than that.
No, the reason he was denied, according to your article was : "upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S.".........

You should read your own article, dude.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,254,741 times
Reputation: 1724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Now why do you think his documents were suspect? ANSWER: because his mom was an illegal who gave birth through a mid-wife supposedly on this side of the border.
Wrong: The document was suspect because there is a history in the region of midwives birthing babies in mexico, but submitting paperwork saying the kid was born in the USA.

Please note that the crux of the matter is whether or not he was born in the United States. It's as simple as that, despite your ridiculous denial.

Read your own article.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:05 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,573 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
No, the reason he was denied, according to your article was : "upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S.".........

You should read your own article, dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
Wrong: The document was suspect because there is a history in the region of midwives birthing babies in mexico, but submitting paperwork saying the kid was born in the USA.

Please note that the crux of the matter is whether or not he was born in the United States. It's as simple as that, despite your ridiculous denial.

Read your own article.
LOLZ, So now you are denying he was born on US Soil? He has a US birth certificate (Long Form and State Registrars certified, raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, and registrar's signature), he has Baptismal records and school records, documentation that you claim is all inclusive of birth on US soil and should make him by virtue of birth a US Citizen.

His mothers mid-wife was not on the list of lying/cheating mid-wives. Read the article and quit attempting to cherry pick info. Face it, your claims have been shown incorrect, you even agreed with me above, now you are attempting to change your argument on cherry picked phrases? Really??
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,254,741 times
Reputation: 1724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
LOLZ, So now you are denying he was born on US Soil? He has a US birth certificate (Long Form and State Registrars certified, raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, and registrar's signature), he has Baptismal records and school records, documentation that you claim is all inclusive of birth on US soil and should make him by virtue of birth a US Citizen.

His mothers mid-wife was not on the list of lying/cheating mid-wives. Read the article and quit attempting to cherry pick info. Face it, your claims have been shown incorrect, you even agreed with me above, now you are attempting to change your argument on cherry picked phrases? Really??
"upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S.""upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S.""upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S.""upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S.""upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S.""upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S."

Read it again.

"upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S."

Think about it for a minute, then read it again:

"upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S."

Golly, I wonder what the crux of the matter is? Could it be whether he was born in the USA or not? Gosh, let's see...

"upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S."

Where's that part about his parent's immigration status? Oh yeah! It's nowhere!
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:25 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,573 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
Uh, what part of "upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S."...Don't you understand? Is there something in there about his parent's immigration status? Uhh, no there isn't. The crux of the matter is whether or not he was born in the USA. Period.
The upon review was the first time he sent in his picture and his birth certificate
Quote:
Last year, Mr. Aranda, a father of three who wears cowboy boots and frequently says "y'all," applied by mail for a passport, enclosing two photographs and his birth certificate. As a supervisor for a small U.S. company that filters and sells drinking water in Mexico, he needs the passport to continue making his frequent business trips south of the border when the new rules take effect next year. "My job depends on it," says Mr. Aranda.
He received a letter from the State Department's national passport center stating that "upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S." The letter listed documents -- his mother's prenatal medical care in the U.S., a newspaper announcement of his birth in the U.S. and his parents' U.S. school records, among other things -- that could be used to bolster his request.
Look at that, he could use his parents Records, imagine that, accept his Father and Mother are both Mexican. His mother came north after the father died when she was 3 months pregnant.
The article then goes on
Quote:
Mr. Aranda sprang into action, driving to a school district warehouse on the outskirts of town to collect records dating to kindergarten, which cite Weslaco as his place of birth. Mr. Aranda also obtained a baptismal certificate with a church seal that states he was born in the town. His mother tried to find her midwife, only to learn that Ms. Bazan -- who wasn't one of the midwives accused of wrongdoing -- died several years ago.
Further down it clearly states
Quote:
In January, Mr. Aranda sent the school and baptism records to the State Department with a note explaining why he didn't have the additional documents. For example, he wrote that his mother "did not have the resources" for prenatal care. His mother, meanwhile, amassed what she could: a discolored document attesting to the first loan she ever took out -- for $10 -- shortly after her son was born in 1970; she found his immunization records and pictures from the local elementary school.
In early February, Mr. Aranda received a letter from the government, saying that he hadn't "fully complied with the request for additional information." The letter advised Mr. Aranda to learn about "procedures for your possible naturalization as a U.S. citizen" and closes: "Once you obtain U.S. citizenship, you may execute another application for a U.S. passport."
The timeline is actually very simple if you follow it along and comprehend the article.

Again, he submitted what you claimed was the tell tale of citizenship, a certified birth certificate showing he was born on US Soil. You can't deny that no matter how much squirming you attempt to do.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,694 posts, read 2,254,741 times
Reputation: 1724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
The upon review was the first time he sent in his picture and his birth certificateThe article then goes onFurther down it clearly statesThe timeline is actually very simple if you follow it along.

Again, he submitted what you claimed was the tell tale of citizenship, a certified birth certificate showing he was born on US Soil. You can't deny that no matter how much squirming you attempt to do.
Your baptismal records, your kindergarten records, are not proof of being born in the USA, which is the crux of the matter.
The only person squirming is you.

Question: If he had been delivered at a hospital in the USA, rather than by midwife, who had to vouch that he was born here, do you suppose we would even be discussing him? (Hint: The answer is "No")

What part of "upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S." don't you understand?
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:35 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,573 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
Your baptismal records, your kindergarten records, are not proof of being born in the USA, which is the crux of the matter.
The only person squirming is you.

Question: If he had been delivered at a hospital in the USA, rather than by midwife, who had to vouch that he was born here, do you suppose we would even be discussing him? (Hint: The answer is "No")

What part of "upon review, we have determined that further information is needed to support your claim of birth in the U.S." don't you understand?
Those records are recognized as secondary ID proof by DoS and USCIS to help determine citizenship, your own links fail you now. LOL

First Time Applicants

Note the following
Quote:
3.Submit Evidence of U.S. Citizenship
When applying for a U.S. passport in person, evidence of U.S. citizenship must be submitted with Form DS-11.
As I have continuously stated, one must prove citizenship by submitting evidence of citizenship. I'm willing to bet you have never held a US Passport in your name, nor do you know the process of obtaining one.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 07-06-2012 at 08:43 PM..
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