U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-10-2012, 07:01 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,168,220 times
Reputation: 2130

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Recon-what? You've got Ruben mixed up with something else. He's not about that at all.
Uh, huh. Why is it mostly Hispanic-Americans who want amnesty for illegal aliens? Is it just a coincidence that most illegal aliens are of the Hispanic persuation?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-10-2012, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
25,397 posts, read 16,364,645 times
Reputation: 14129
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
this article is just chock-full of stupidity..
It's partially correct. The act of "illegal immigration" is illegal. The person is a criminal. The proper term is criminal alien.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 03:17 PM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,373 posts, read 6,271,160 times
Reputation: 5826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
It's partially correct. The act of "illegal immigration" is illegal. The person is a criminal. The proper term is criminal alien.
You're wrong. Being in the U.S. without papers is legally different from trespassing. It is a civil administrative violation, and violators of civil administrative codes are not criminals. It's basically the legal equivalent of getting a parking ticket or failing to get a permit to hold a garage sale. Unless you want to call little girls who run lemonade stands without proper permits criminals, you shouldn't be calling undocumented immigrants criminals.

If you disagree with that, fine, but I'm just telling you what the Supreme Court considers undocumented presence on American territory to be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 03:39 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,168,220 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias View Post
You're wrong. Being in the U.S. without papers is legally different from trespassing. It is a civil administrative violation, and violators of civil administrative codes are not criminals. It's basically the legal equivalent of getting a parking ticket or failing to get a permit to hold a garage sale. Unless you want to call little girls who run lemonade stands without proper permits criminals, you shouldn't be calling undocumented immigrants criminals.

If you disagree with that, fine, but I'm just telling you what the Supreme Court considers undocumented presence on American territory to be.
They are illegal aliens, not undocumented immigrants. It is a felony criminal act to be deported and return here again. Many of them have done that. Many if not most of them commit document fraud and that is a criminal felony. The list goes on and on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 06:50 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias View Post
You're wrong. Being in the U.S. without papers is legally different from trespassing. It is a civil administrative violation, and violators of civil administrative codes are not criminals. It's basically the legal equivalent of getting a parking ticket or failing to get a permit to hold a garage sale. Unless you want to call little girls who run lemonade stands without proper permits criminals, you shouldn't be calling undocumented immigrants criminals.

If you disagree with that, fine, but I'm just telling you what the Supreme Court considers undocumented presence on American territory to be.
So lets be clear and define who actually is considered criminal and not - SCOTUS has actually stated that EWI is a Federal class 4 Criminal Misdemeanor (penalty plus up to 6 months jail), and a second EWI is a Federal class 6 Criminal Felony (penalty plus up to 2 years in jail).
Quote:
Thus, via examples of the complexity of status, it is easy to understand why it is hard to develop a reasonable suspicion based on articulable facts that someone is not lawfully in the U.S. It is important to analyze these immigration related terms to evaluate the impact of certain bills. Those who enter the U.S. without inspection (EWI) are typically subject to a misdemeanor violation under the Immigration and Nationality Act., as amended (INA), section 275. The first violation is punishable by a fine and/or up to six months in prison. A subsequent violation increases the potential incarceration to up to two years.

If a person enters the U.S. lawfully but stays longer in the U.S. than authorized (e.g. on an I-94 entry document typically), then they are subject to removal from the U.S. under federal immigration law, but not criminal prosecution.
Unlawful Presence, Status, Authorized Stay, EWI - Immigration in Focus

Visa overstays are still considered to be here in violation of immigration law which is equivalent to a violation and not a crime but an administrative offense with a penalty of deportation. This is equivalent to civil law, it is in fact Federal Law as it is the Federal gov't instituting the charges. Immigration law is also federal, not civil. There is nothing civil about immigration law, it's all federal. I'm just telling you what undocumented presence in America actually is.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 07-10-2012 at 07:17 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 07:22 PM
 
Location: First Hill, Seattle
5,498 posts, read 5,815,646 times
Reputation: 7231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
So lets be clear and define who actually is considered criminal and not - SCOTUS has actually stated that EWI is a Federal class 4 Misdemeanor (penalty plus up to 6 months jail), and a second EWI is a Federal class 6 Felony (penalty plus up to 2 years in jail).
Unlawful Presence, Status, Authorized Stay, EWI - Immigration in Focus

Visa overstays are still considered to be here in violation of immigration law which is equivalent to a violation and not a crime but an administrative offense with a penalty of deportation. This is equivalent to civil law, it is in fact Federal Law as it is the Federal gov't instituting the charges. Immigration law is also federal, not civil. There is nothing civil about immigration law, it's all federal. I'm just telling you what undocumented presence in America actually is.
If I may correct you on one nuance - immigration law actually is civil law to the extent that all law is either civil or criminal law. The federal nature of it does not affect its characterization as civil law, because all federal law, just like state law, is either civil or criminal. Of course there is substantial overlap in the subject matter of criminal law and immigration law which makes immigration law seem quasi - criminal. But immigration law does not aim to punish people. It is aimed at kicking people out of the country, letting them in, or letting them stay. I guess you could argue deportation is a "punishment" but theoretically - sending someone back to their country of citizenship is just putting the right person in the right place, to an extent.

I don't personally have a problem with the term illegal alien, like I said. Contrary to what people think it is a completely racially and ethnically neutral term which accurately describes someone present in the US without legal status based on a person's violation of the law. Strictly speaking, I myself could be an illegal "parker" if I park my car in a no parking zone, or an illegal driver if I drive over the speed limit or I don't renew my tags. Or an illegal alien in Canada if I decide to hop the northern border. It's not as if being "illegal" is this immutable characteristic that one does not have control over.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 07:51 PM
 
Location: First Hill, Seattle
5,498 posts, read 5,815,646 times
Reputation: 7231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
It's partially correct. The act of "illegal immigration" is illegal. The person is a criminal. The proper term is criminal alien.
Not necessarily. Your statement presumes all illegal aliens are criminals. Many illegal aliens are also criminals, but other illegal aliens are not. An example is a foreign student or perhaps a tourist who has allowed her visa to lapse. Such a person would be an illegal alien who is not subject to criminal liability, and is thus not a criminal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 07:54 PM
 
17,022 posts, read 9,099,076 times
Reputation: 5686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frugality View Post
When you use it to describe an entire ethnic group, as many do, it's a slur.


I would say almost everyone gets that.

Illegals themselves are indeed a group however collectively.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 07:57 PM
 
24,071 posts, read 17,675,381 times
Reputation: 12887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
It's partially correct. The act of "illegal immigration" is illegal. The person is a criminal. The proper term is criminal alien.
sounds good to me. but i don't see the apologist author of this article going for that rather accurate phrase.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 07:57 PM
 
17,022 posts, read 9,099,076 times
Reputation: 5686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefoxwarrior View Post
Not necessarily. Your statement presumes all illegal aliens are criminals. Many illegal aliens are also criminals, but other illegal aliens are not. An example is a foreign student or perhaps a tourist who has allowed her visa to lapse. Such a person would be an illegal alien who is not subject to criminal liability, and is thus not a criminal.


Still with the illegal identifier though.

There is no illegal that is not illegal regardless of whether they are Farm workers or a student with an expired visa.
All illegals are in violation of the Law indeed regardless of how it is classified.
In that situation they are not supposed to be here....at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top