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Old 07-17-2012, 07:43 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
You haven't read the actual executive order have you? It has requirements that illegals have to meet in order to apply for it. Such as having been brought over as teens, at the latest, and attaining a high school degree. It doesn't provide a pathway to citizenship either, if you happen to be under that illusion.
You haven't read any EO either, as the memo's are but a change in policy, not done by EO (unconstitutional). The rest of your comment is the memo requirements of things that "should" happen, not "shall" happen. Remember they must "apply" for "discretion" for a 1 year "stay of deportation" if they are caught up in the system or prior to as it is not completely automatic. The same with work authorization (good for up to 2 years), they must apply as there are no guarantees they will even receive that.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:46 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
With only 112 million souls in all of Mexico (2011 census)you are saying 50 million of them have illegally migrated to the USA in the last decade? For that to be a credible number they'd have to be pouring over the borders by the thousands every day,and if they were pouring over the borders in those numbers i'd think the local border towns would notice thousands of people entering their towns every day,the roads would be clogged with people walking from the border areas. Sounds to me like your estimate might have a few too many zeros tacked on.
Also odd or coincidental how all these illegals decided to invade the USA since Obama took office.
Not all illegals are Mexican. There are thousands entering daily over a border that's over 2000 miles long. So with only a couple to a few every mile that is certainly feasible.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:52 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
You haven't read the actual executive order have you? It has requirements that illegals have to meet in order to apply for it. Such as having been brought over as teens, at the latest, and attaining a high school degree. It doesn't provide a pathway to citizenship either, if you happen to be under that illusion.
What requrements? How will the illegals have to prove their age or length of time here? Remember -- these are people with no documents or fraudulent documents. Illegals are obviously very willing to commit felony fraud and lie. What's to stop a 40 year old from getting a fake Mexican birth certificate that makes him 29 years of age, and claim his parent brought him in 5 years ago?

Or the 19 year old? How is he going to prove he was brought in 5 years before -- and there is NOT a requirement for a high school diploma. GEDs are included, and how easy will it now be for a fake or quickie GED to be obtained? They're doing the GEDs in Spanish now.

And citizenship isn't very important as these people can now stay here, and it's being assumed that their family members such as the parents who brought them in will be allowed to stay here with them. Almost no illegals are being deported anymore. Nothing at all is being done about the "visa overstayers" who may have obtained a cheap border crossing card and simply never went home.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:58 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayarcy View Post
MILLER: Obama's immigration shake-up - Washington Times


... amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. In ... That means most criminal aliens can stay, and only convicted felons ...
Exactly and if you listen to the radio shows that are for illegals -- which even have immigration lawyers telling them how they can break the laws of this country, it's being spelled out which crimes they can have committed. It turns out they can have a pretty significant number of crimes -- shoplifting it turns out is fine, but armed robbery (if they were caught) might not be. A couple DWIs shouldn't make them worry about getting their new Obama visa. And obviously felony document fraud won't count at all.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:44 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,097,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
You edited this down by 40 million (originally saying "50-60 million coming here illegally"). Why? Especially if you are saying you can't come with any hard numbers.
It doesn't matter. No one knows the true number. But fact is the government is under estimating the # like they did last time around. So its definitely more.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:48 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,097,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Nah, I remember that there was much less people 10 years ago, plus I've heard a number of stories about population issues elsewhere in the United States. I say our population has to be at least 600 million. The Census Bureau obviously under-estimated, or they are complicit in the conspiracy.

What, you guys are saying you determine illegal alien numbers the same way...
There has got to be a large # of illegals if Hispanics are the majority in most U.S cities.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
It doesn't matter. No one knows the true number. But fact is the government is under estimating the # like they did last time around. So its definitely more.
What I am saying is that you originally gave a range of "50 - 60 million", then later said "10 - 20 million". How can you arrive at a difference 40 million people within a few posts on the same day? Which of the two ranges of numbers do you want to go with?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
It could be 50 - 60 mil.

Who is keeping count?
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
There has got to be a large # of illegals if Hispanics are the majority in most U.S cities.
Why? What is the correlation? Current census number put the total Hispanic population of the United States at 50 million.

With your earlier range of numbers ("50 - 60 million"), you would have to consider most of them as illegal aliens...
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
What requrements? How will the illegals have to prove their age or length of time here? Remember -- these are people with no documents or fraudulent documents. Illegals are obviously very willing to commit felony fraud and lie. What's to stop a 40 year old from getting a fake Mexican birth certificate that makes him 29 years of age, and claim his parent brought him in 5 years ago?

Or the 19 year old? How is he going to prove he was brought in 5 years before -- and there is NOT a requirement for a high school diploma. GEDs are included, and how easy will it now be for a fake or quickie GED to be obtained? They're doing the GEDs in Spanish now.

And citizenship isn't very important as these people can now stay here, and it's being assumed that their family members such as the parents who brought them in will be allowed to stay here with them. Almost no illegals are being deported anymore. Nothing at all is being done about the "visa overstayers" who may have obtained a cheap border crossing card and simply never went home.
In addition, a GED or high school diploma is not even required. As long as they are "in school" they are eligible. I wonder how many gangbangers and other reprobates (with "clean" records) are enrolled in school, but seldom attend classes.

Oh, and illegals are already scheming on ways to qualify. This is even disgusting to some Dreamies.

Quote:
First I'd like to leave very clear that I hate selfishness, jealousy or anything of that nature but ever since the deferred action was implemented I seen several "dreamers" that I know of trying to cheat the system already. Yesterday I was talking to a dude that came here when he was 14, dropped out of high school on his first year, and has a baby already. He was telling me that he'll just enroll back in school just to apply for the deferred action and get a better job.
Hate feeling like this but this is BS - DREAM Act Portal Forum

I have no doubt there will be rampant fraud. I'm sure there are thousands just like this guy. Yet, they don't understand why so many feel nothing but disdain for illegals.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:06 AM
 
153 posts, read 108,563 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You haven't read any EO either, as the memo's are but a change in policy, not done by EO (unconstitutional). The rest of your comment is the memo requirements of things that "should" happen, not "shall" happen. Remember they must "apply" for "discretion" for a 1 year "stay of deportation" if they are caught up in the system or prior to as it is not completely automatic. The same with work authorization (good for up to 2 years), they must apply as there are no guarantees they will even receive that.
Both executive orders, and 'policy discretion' are legal fiction without basis in the Constitution. Both are as such unconstitutional. The only time the executive would have a legal basis for using discretion in this degree is if he believed that an act of Congress was unconstitutional. I don't agree with the migration policy, but Congress is specifically granted the power to regulate naturalization laws.

We can call it a memo if you insist though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
What requrements? How will the illegals have to prove their age or length of time here? Remember -- these are people with no documents or fraudulent documents. Illegals are obviously very willing to commit felony fraud and lie. What's to stop a 40 year old from getting a fake Mexican birth certificate that makes him 29 years of age, and claim his parent brought him in 5 years ago?
I'll grant you they'll be fraud, but let's not get that paranoid. I doubt we're going to see forty year old men getting facial surgery in order to benefit from this. The human body does age, and it's clear when someone is 29 or 40. Also, it'd be stupid to claim to have been brought over at age 24. You had to be here when you were 15 or younger.

Quote:
Or the 19 year old? How is he going to prove he was brought in 5 years before -- and there is NOT a requirement for a high school diploma. GEDs are included, and how easy will it now be for a fake or quickie GED to be obtained? They're doing the GEDs in Spanish now.
School records, bank accounts, etc. etc. Tax records are going to be very popular I think.

One of the objections I have with the term undocumented alien, that so many liberals seem to like, is that it implies that illegals don't have documents. If the US government ever seriously wanted to deport everyone they could. There is enough documentation available already to find most visa over stayers and IWErs. There is no real need to implement a draconian national ID system. The issue is the cost that deporting everyone is so high.

Quote:
And citizenship isn't very important as these people can now stay here, and it's being assumed that their family members such as the parents who brought them in will be allowed to stay here with them. Almost no illegals are being deported anymore. Nothing at all is being done about the "visa overstayers" who may have obtained a cheap border crossing card and simply never went home.
Obama has a record in his deportation numbers actually. It seems that a larger number of illegals love Obama and Democrats, but I argue he's been one of the worse Presidents for illegals. Bush Jr. was willing to consider passing the CIR/Dream Act if it passed through Congress, and his deportation numbers were significantly less than Obama's. If I'm not mistaken Obama has deported more people, or will soon, in his one term than Bush Jr. did in his two terms.

Even with the new memo there is little reason to believe his deportations will stop. Earlier in his term he was said to have granted his underlings greater prosecution discretion to not deport low priority cases. Despite this his deportations continued to record numbers. The new memo will not benefit anyone until around November, likely when the election has finished.

A pathway to Citizenship is important. The deferment of deportation is in increments of two years, with the possibility of renewal. Try planning your life in increments of two years. Since it's an executive order, or memo if you prefer, it can be changed by any future President.
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