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Old 10-30-2007, 06:48 PM
 
140 posts, read 80,139 times
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Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I love war too!!! I consider myself an spiritual warrior, my favorite weapons are Love, Non-violence, Ideas and Music.
You my friend, are one helluva guy!

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Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Ego is my worst enemy.
Amen to that!

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Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
btw stsmith one of my closest friends is the son of an American Vietnam veteran and a Mexican anthropologist, I'm friends with his father too he's a cool guy although he likes guns too much for my taste, after the vietnam war he had to spend 2 years on a psychiatric hospital that's why after that he decided to settle down in sunny Mexico and forget about it all. He likes scuba diving a lot and all sorts of extreme sports, a lot of his army friends are into this stuff too, they usually come to Mexico to explore the caves and dive in the cenotes (huge holes filled with water) You wouldn't believe the amount of Vietnam veterans living in Mexico, they do it because we are a peaceful nation and because their pension allows them to live much better here, most are nice but there was a guy who had to be arrested because he had a huge arsenal in his house, rocket launchers and everything!! here you can posses weapons in your house to defend yourself but there are some limits to the amount and there are some guns that are allowed to the army only.
My father always had great admiration for the Mexican people, illegal or not. He worked with them in construction, in the orchards, and in the fields. He also had great respect for the N. Vietnamese although he felt they couldn't be trusted. He, like many veterans, maintained an impressive array of weaponry. It's what brought him and myself and my brothers close together. He taught us how to shoot, how to fight with knives and fists alike. His methods were crude but effective. Anyway, if he were alive today I know he would be very saddened by such things as Aztlan and similar movements.
Peace
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Old 10-30-2007, 07:08 PM
 
140 posts, read 80,139 times
Reputation: 42
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Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
I had heard, could be wrong, that most of the members of this front are legal, born in the US, citizens. Not the illegal elliments coming in. The illegal aliens tend to keep a quiet profile and don't cause much problem. The majority of the problem is the Chicano's and gangs.
That wouldn't surprise me a bit. I think that all gang mambers, whether they are hispanic, black, white, whatever, should be labeled as terrorists and sent to Guantanamo to rot.
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Old 10-30-2007, 07:30 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,171,961 times
Reputation: 138
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I understand your point.

What happened in the past cannot be undone.

It is as if the government of Mexico is using the 'lost territory' argument to keep the regular Mexicans' eyes away from their real problems-----namely their dysfunctional culture.

What part of the culture do you find dysfunctional?
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Old 10-30-2007, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,704,952 times
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Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
What part of the culture do you find dysfunctional?
The flagrant and socially sanctioned racism for one; the corruption that makes Louisiana look like Sweden, as well as the machismo are but three examples.

Here in the USA we have the same problems but they are of a much lesser magnitude.
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:25 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,171,961 times
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People in Mexico are very racist-- yet not publicly racist like some groups here in the U.S. No doubt about the Mexican Government corruption. Machismo isn't really a problem.. a lot of countries are based around the man being the head of the household.
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Old 10-30-2007, 09:47 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,647,167 times
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Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
What part of the culture do you find dysfunctional?
Don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings here--but this really is an interesting subject...and here's an important point. The American culture is more "modern" than that of Mexico. It's less traditional, and has much less warmth and family closeness than Mexico. Americans are scattered widely, and family ties are relatively weak.
HOWEVER---This also means that the American culture has moved beyond its own origins---to the point that, as a first-world culture, we have basically LEARNED to put our faith and trust in STRANGERS---and in INSTITUTIONS. Think about it--in modern-day America, we look upon the police as trustworthy, with our welfare in mind---they literally "work for us". We trust institutions, rather than the individuals within them. We feel (rightly or wrongly) that the law is basically FAIR---and is supposed to "work" on our behalf.

In Mexico, strangers are not to be trusted. One places his trust in those whom he knows--family, friends, or "friends of friends", but not in strangers. The police aren't looked on as "servants" of the people, but as agents of the rich. Government isn't "representative" of the poor--it merely keeps them in line.
In a "macho" culture, each family or group sees its interests as supreme, and more important than the interests of other families. Families protect their members from "outsiders", including the police. Family comes before society.

Mexico is rapidly modernizing--in a few more years, the old "machismo" may be gone. And some of the warm family ties, closeness, and support may be gone, as well.
But right now, the Mexican culture works fine as far as family togetherness goes. Its families seem closer than American families do.---but the US culture is more adaptable for running a huge diverse multiracial nation. The "macho" culture doesn't work so well in that case...

I'm not sure you'd actually call it a "dysfunctional" culture..but it is different from that of America..

Last edited by macmeal; 10-30-2007 at 10:27 PM..
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:43 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,171,961 times
Reputation: 138
The days of trust are over. Due to all the scammers there have been roaming about lately.. its ridiculous. Strong family ties are characteristics of developing and/or less developed countries. Its how it is. Look at Africa, look at South America. However, I do believe that in the cities the Machismo is slowly, never the less surely dying out. In rural places in Mexico, there is still a very strong presence. Not only in Mexico-- but in Latin America in general. And yea, I agree with you. I wouldn't call it dysfunctional either-- its just different. Different in a sense that both the cultures of the Spanish and the Amerindians combined and formed the new culture which is present in modern day Latin America. On the flip side the Europeans had no intentions of assimilating themselves with the Amerindian culture and never adopted its ways. Even if it had things wouldn't of been much different. Or would it?
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,704,952 times
Reputation: 3785
For the record:

Traditional Mexican culture sounds very much like Sicilian culture of 40 years ago in many regards------both good and bad.
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:00 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,647,167 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
The days of trust are over. Due to all the scammers there have been roaming about lately.. its ridiculous. Strong family ties are characteristics of developing and/or less developed countries. Its how it is. Look at Africa, look at South America. However, I do believe that in the cities the Machismo is slowly, never the less surely dying out. In rural places in Mexico, there is still a very strong presence. Not only in Mexico-- but in Latin America in general. And yea, I agree with you. I wouldn't call it dysfunctional either-- its just different. Different in a sense that both the cultures of the Spanish and the Amerindians combined and formed the new culture which is present in modern day Latin America. On the flip side the Europeans had no intentions of assimilating themselves with the Amerindian culture and never adopted its ways. Even if it had things wouldn't of been much different. Or would it?
Well, that's a good question--as I said on another thread, the Spanish, vs the English colonization took place in quite different times of history--and in VERY different parts of the New World. The population in Mexico and Peru, in particular, was very large, and quite advanced. These places were literally "countries", even by the European definition, long before the Whites came. The Spanish quite literally were invading a country...with an elaborate society, cities, roads, social classes, etc.

The North American Indians were much less developed, and most of North America was nearly empty, except for a few nomads. Certain tribes near the Great Lakes had a form of government, but nowhere near the sohpistcation of the Aztecs, Toltecs, or Incas. California probably had the "densest" population, but no real "government", beyond the ownership of oak groves (used for food). These were inherited through the mother's side of a family.

All of this certainly did have an effect on how things "developed" after the Europeans arrived....The Spanish had a lot more "infrastructure" to contend with than the English did.
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:03 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,171,961 times
Reputation: 138
Correct, and the first settlers were not there to take anyone over, the Spanish had other things in mind. I still have no idea why the Amerindians on what is present day American soil weren't as advanced as their brothers down Souf'.
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