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Old 07-24-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,716,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I know people like to claim "the Mexicans are taking our jobs!" I haven't seen anyone lining up to pick strawberries or work at the fast food places.

In fact, a really interesting book that indirectly talks about the "illegals" is Tomatoland. The book is about the tomato industry in Florida. A couple of chapters talk about how the workforce is secured, and what happened when the workers went on strike. Some native born Americans showed up to work for 1 day. They didn't come back on the second day.

We have an economic issue for sure, but stopping illegal immigration isn't going to solve the problem, unless the mindset changes on how we work and what sorts of jobs we'd like to do. Energies would be better spent building up our local economies and creating jobs, instead of worrying about people trying to make a new life in the "land of opportunity."
Fast food places? Are you kidding or have you lived in seclusion? Thousands line up for McDonald's jobs in Cleveland area | cleveland.com
Thousands Line Up for McDonald's Jobs in Atlanta - New America Media

You are attempting to compare crop picking to blue collar and entry level positions? Really?

As for Tomatoland, based on the reporting in the book, who would really want to pick tomatoes and be subject to the over 100 herbicides and pesticides used in the fields? Based on this alone, I would prefer mechanized tomato pickers vs human pickers.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:59 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,342,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I know people like to claim "the Mexicans are taking our jobs!" I haven't seen anyone lining up to pick strawberries or work at the fast food places.

In fact, a really interesting book that indirectly talks about the "illegals" is Tomatoland. The book is about the tomato industry in Florida. A couple of chapters talk about how the workforce is secured, and what happened when the workers went on strike. Some native born Americans showed up to work for 1 day. They didn't come back on the second day.

We have an economic issue for sure, but stopping illegal immigration isn't going to solve the problem, unless the mindset changes on how we work and what sorts of jobs we'd like to do. Energies would be better spent building up our local economies and creating jobs, instead of worrying about people trying to make a new life in the "land of opportunity."
Uh; less than 1 illegal alien in 10 works in the fields; the 90+ percent left are hurting Americans by pushing down their wages.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:01 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,342,384 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
i know i know but as long as they make it a racial issue, they have the higher ground.
the card, WMD.
as long s they got card u have no rights and they have immunity as to any and all wrongdoing.
Pulling the race card: bad move cause there's more and more anger and hate against ANYBODY who looks "Hispanic" but La Raza and their homies don't care.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge
2,423 posts, read 3,013,253 times
Reputation: 2485
Its a sell-out issue.

*American businesses and corporations hire illegals instead of hiring American citizens or legal immigrants.

*Our government basically allows illegal immigrants by turning a blind eye by not enforcing laws.

*American cities have become sanctuaries for illegal aliens thanks to the city's government. Why aren't the city officials being voted out of office?

*Each time a state wants to make it harder on illegal aliens an American judge steps in and blocks most, if not all, what the state is trying to achieve to stem the flow of illegals from entering into their state.

*Both Republicans and Democrats use illegals for their political agendas. Both parties kick the can down the road and allow this issue to continue.

*When a child is born to illegal parents the child is given automatic American citizenship.


I read and hear hatred words towards illegals constantly. Perhaps the hate should be directed towards our sell-out businesses and our local, state and federal government. After all, they are to blame for accommodating the illegals. Its time for REAL change. Its time for a third party.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:06 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,567,866 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
[Frank_Knight;25315067]I am an illegal immigrant. I was brought into this country as a baby and have no memory of Mexico. I speak Spanish and identify myself as a Mexican in so far as my culture goes. That is to say, I eat Mexican food and have pinatas at parties. My loyalty though is to the Californian people.
I find it interesting where your loyalty falls, not to the only country you know, the one you call home, the US, but to the "people" in California. Would those be the illegals living there? Your status is a result of the actions of your parents, or would it be the fault of the US? Do you think the drain on California city budgets by illegals contributed to hospitals closing down and cities filing for bankruptcy?

I think you misinterpret resentment for hatred. Granted there are those that "hate" illegals, but they probably hate other things as well. My resentment starts with the government that panders to illegals and to illegals who keep making demands on government which fall to the taxpayer. I resent my government for thinking that the illegals have more to offer to this country than citizens. I resent illegals going to the head of the line while US citizens that should be helped are pushed to the back of the line. I resent the fact that illegals can't get their head wrapped around the fact that US taxpayers are footing the bill and the government distributes our tax dollars.

Quote:
I prefer to discuss the economics of the issue. I certainly wish that the OP was correct in stating this was purely an economic issue. I find that calling someone a racist in a discussion doesn't conduct fruitful discussion. If they are genuinely racist they never intended to give you a fair shake anyway. If they weren't racist, you'll likely anger them beyond the point where rational discussion can be avoided.
If you want to discuss the economics of the situation, you might want to address the cost to the taxpayer which enables the government to provide handouts to ALL illegals. Paying city tax on purchases, which one cannot avoid, is hardly a contribution to our economy. One cannot claim "I pay taxes", when cit tax its a a pittance compared to what they take in government benefits. Not paying federal/state taxes impacts the US economy. How about the cost to the public education system? How about the "cost" to US citizen children who are held back in the education process because of those who need special attention? Illegals have absolutely no idea how a US taxpayer feels when their hands are tied while someone else has their hand in their pocket.

Please explain to me just exactly how the US economy benefits from illegals? Explain to me how much more the US economy will benefit if they are given amnesty? What's going to happen if they get amnesty? They will start making demands from their "employers". Higher wages, better benefits better working conditions and there is a good possibility that many of them will be collecting some sort of government benefit under their former name/SS#. They will try to drive the hourly rate up because they may fall "victim" to having to pay taxes, after having dragged it down. And then what happens? Another wave of illegals will come and take their jobs away.


As they say, be careful what you wish for, you may get it. It's just that the outcome may not exactly be what you hoped for and could very well backfire.


Quote:
Again, there are legitimate grounds to be against illegal immigration. I don't agree with many of them, but they exist. Even if they are, in your eyes, criminals-at-large, they deserve to be treated with a minimum of humanity. Call them criminals and demand they be deported, but don't go calling them lazy or cowardly. Some of them are. Individuals can be lazy and/or cowardly. Calling an entire group that though? Well, it really is racism to judge an entire group on the actions of a few.
It makes sense that you wouldn't agree with the legitimate grounds regarding illegal immigration, those grounds work against someone who is illegal in the US. The legitimate grounds are the laws of the US that are ignored by illegals as well as our government. They are the laws that US citizens are demanding be enforced and the laws that illegals want to dismantle to suit themselves.

The current administration has afforded illegals practically every right that are rightfully those of American citizens, short of legally voting and citizenship. I agree that illegals aren't lazy. They know how to work off the books and at the same time work the system.

Quote:
You are correct that they do come from all over. However not so long ago there was a thread where someone suggested we deport all illegals into Mexico as an act of revenge. Mexico certainly gets picked on more than other nations in this forum. There is some justification in that Mexicans make the largest numbers of illegals, and in fairness other illegals also get the burnt the racism. As I noted above, the Irish and Chinese both suffer(ed) from it. There is still a significant number of illegal Irishmen in Boston and New England at large. Chinese illegals aren't uncommon either. Korean illegals are also on the rise, and I hear from others in the community that the Indian illegal population is catching up.
Do you hear from the Irish, Chinese, Russian, Polish, Indian, Pakistani, Arab countries and every other government telling the US what it should allow and do for their countrymen who are in the US illegally? The only government that is dictating to the US regarding it's own who are in the US illegally is Mexico. How can Mexico state that it doesn't want illegals from South American countries in their country, yet demand that the US keep illegal Mexicans in the US and provide for them?

Since illegal Mexicans and their supporters are the only vocal group in the US, why is it they feel that they are the victims, when in fact the US taxpayer is the victim? Why is it that if an illegal is killed in the US, their life seems to take on a bigger meaning than the lives of US citizens lost at the hands of illegals? America citizens don't owe ANY illegal anything.

This administration is too concerned with the needs of illegals and should put the focus on getting the US citizens that live in poverty out of poverty, and open doors for our youth to obtain a better education and/or acquire technical skills so that they, as US citizens, have a future. This is needed now more than ever. Our government needs to lift those US citizens that have been suppressed and denied out of their misery, out the cycle, and give them hope before they give anything to illegals.

US citizens are opposed to ALL illegals be given amnesty. Illegals from Mexico will not be the only recipients of amnesty, but it would applly to every person who is in the US illegally. Disregard the number 12 million that has been used since 2007 and is still being used today. The fact is the number is much higher. It is impossible to account for those that live in the shadows.

Last edited by softblueyz; 07-25-2012 at 04:24 AM..
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:01 AM
 
31,921 posts, read 14,699,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainBiking View Post
Its a sell-out issue.

*American businesses and corporations hire illegals instead of hiring American citizens or legal immigrants.

*Our government basically allows illegal immigrants by turning a blind eye by not enforcing laws.

*American cities have become sanctuaries for illegal aliens thanks to the city's government. Why aren't the city officials being voted out of office?

*Each time a state wants to make it harder on illegal aliens an American judge steps in and blocks most, if not all, what the state is trying to achieve to stem the flow of illegals from entering into their state.

*Both Republicans and Democrats use illegals for their political agendas. Both parties kick the can down the road and allow this issue to continue.

*When a child is born to illegal parents the child is given automatic American citizenship.


I read and hear hatred words towards illegals constantly. Perhaps the hate should be directed towards our sell-out businesses and our local, state and federal government. After all, they are to blame for accommodating the illegals. Its time for REAL change. Its time for a third party.
Define "hate". What I am reading and what I am feeling is objection to illegal immigration. That objection also extends to the employers that hire them and our government who turns a blind eye to this and has been expressed as so by most who want our immigration laws enforced. Selective reading perhaps?
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:36 PM
 
153 posts, read 108,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
All illegals, EWI's and VO's are treated with humanity, it was their actions that have them called criminals. They knowingly violated laws (EWI or VO), some more than others (fraudulent documents, perjury, etc). Immigration violations (EWI) start as Class 4 Misdemeanors.
While there certainly are those who treat them with humanity, there are

Quote:
Racism by judging a group based on a few? Try stereotype, as racism is the wrong word.
Stereotype works as well, but racism is still a proper term. A semantic's issue is probably not worth fighting any more deeply about.

Quote:
Your Libertarian ideology of economics only works upon the globalization of the world under the One World, One government, One Order conglomerate. Your "Freedom of Association" theory dismisses the nation (US Constitution) and the state for the UDHR Article 20 (taken out of context by Libertarians as it only pertains to the members of and within each nation as recognized by status - meaning those legally there with the authorization of the gov't or citizens). Even the UDHR allows for nations to deport illegals an limits their rights (Due Process Clauses and Equal Protection Clause).
The economics I have spoken about aren't libertarian. Every concept I've touched upon is mainstream economics. Comparative advantage, supply-demand curves, elasticity, etc. etc. All mainstream. In addition, economics is a value free science.

Now my economic policy proposals are libertarian in that I assume that the goal is to create greater wealth while at the same time recognizing the value of allowing individuals to voluntary associate with one another.

Libertarianism at no point recommends a one world government. Nor does it require it. Free movement of people has existed for much of our history (humanity's history) within the multi-state system we live in.

I would argue that, as the US is a federation of sovereign states, we see a free movement all the time when people move across state lines without any internal passports. In Europe free movement has been the norm with the exception of war times. The idea for the Schengen area isn't revolutionary - it's merely a return to normalcy for Europe. The US immigration system was a fairly simple one prior to WW2 and the New Deal. It was this simplicity which is why the very problem of illegal aliens was non existent until after the immigration system became more complex and restrictive post-WW2. Free movement of people isn't this radical idea, far from it, it is the normal state of affairs for the western world.

And yes, you are correct that the US Constitution gives the US Congress the power to regulate naturalization. That clause, along with several others such as those granting Congress the ability to issue certain monopolies, the former slavery clauses, martial law, and several other portions are why I argue that the US Constitution is a far cry from a guide to small government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, I vehemently oppose illegal immigration. And, I don't give a flying fig if they are black, white, brown, red, yellow, or polka dot. Nor do I care if they came from Mexico, France, China, or Timbuktu. I am sooooooo sick of the race card being played in relation to illegal immigration. Yes, some people are racists. But, most who oppose illegal immigration do so for reasons totally unrelated to race.
If you aren't racist:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myself
For those of you who don't fall into the temptation of personal attacks or racist remarks, I thank you regardless of your position on the issue.
However I stand that the issue is not purely economic, but also consists of a racist fear of migrants. Again, I wish it was purely economic. I really really wish this was true. I would prefer not to walk into a conversation on the matter and hear someone say complain about how "lazy, cowardly, filthy" etc the damn Mexicans were. Occasionally the insults are targeted towards not Mexicans, but a different illegal group. Every time though these remarks are hurtful and deter the conversation from being fruitful.

Quote:
Yes, and this "certain someone" still holds that belief. In case you don't know, in this country, we are all entitled to an opinion.
I've never said one isn't entitled to their opinion. Some opinions however are hurtful and racist. Again, I understand people will disagree with my opinion on this issue and I can recognize that they have legitimate reasons for doing so. I can tolerate one saying that illegal Mexicans or Koreans should be respectively deported to Mexico or Korea. To say that all illegals, Mexicans or Koreans, should be deported to Mexico though?

Don't get me wrong. I support open borders regardless of the nation. Mexico's treatment of illegals within its borders is atrocious. My complaint of that remark is that said certain someone implies it just punishment for Mexico's involvement in the issue, i.e. they wish to punish Mexicans in large for the actions of a discrete number of individuals of various nationalities.

Quote:
Mexicans receive the lion's share of attention, because they are in fact the majority of illegals in this country. I do not hate Mexicans. However, I do hate the abuse we have received from the Mexican government, and Mexican illegal aliens. I'm sick of it. We have no obligation to support millions of people who flock to our shores demanding a better life. In my opinion, the government of Mexico should be ashamed to have so many of its citizens risking life and limb to enter this country illegally.
I have made no secret my dislike of the Mexican government. Nor have I made it secret that I don't believe anyone, illegal or legal, has the right to demand the wealth of others through state welfare. I support charities, that is to say voluntary contributions, but at no point do I defend the current system where tax payers pay for net tax recipients.

And yes, Mexicans do compose the majority of illegals. This does not however make the two mutually inclusive of one another. As noted above, it is a discrete number of individuals from various nationalities that compose the illegal community. The whole nation of Mexico should not be blamed for their actions.

Quote:
As for treating illegal aliens with humanity, perhaps you haven't noticed, but to my knowledge, I have not once referred to you as an illegal alien, although I have every right to do so. Rather, I have called you a "non-citizen." If that isn't enough humanity, so be it.
I don't mind the term illegal alien. As I've noted beforehand, I find both the terms 'illegal' and 'undocumented' unsuitable if it's an issue of semantics. As a matter of convenience illegal is preferable, if only because it's shorter.

A better extension of humanity would be not to seek to punish or dehumanize the entire nation of Mexico for the actions of individuals.

Quote:
I find it interesting where your loyalty falls, not to the only country you know, the one you call home, the US, but to the "people" in California. Would those be the illegals living there? Your status is a result of the actions of your parents, or would it be the fault of the US?
Is not a nation people? I said 'people' because I wanted to avoid implying my loyalty was to the government of California. Greece's economic implosion will be small stuff once California implodes, and I can hardly be loyal to a government that created this mess. I have no intent to jump ship, but I eagerly hope that once things implode we can have a new state constitution created to ensure we don't repeat the same mistakes.

By people I mean just that. The people of California. It's estimated that 7-10% percent of Californians are visa over stayers or entered without inspection, i.e. illegals. So yes, to an extent I include illegals in this phrasing 'people'. I also include the other 90-93% though. A Californian is a Californian regardless of their migration status. It is our common culture that makes us a people.

I make the distinction between California and the US because the latter is a federation. I care for those of the other states. If Californians are my brethren, then Texans are cousins. They are however different, and the love I have for Californians is greater.

For comparison, an Austrian feels a certain love for the German nation as a whole. The german people however are divided into different countries, and even the German Federation is just that - a federation of different sovereign german states. I don't expect a Bavarian to feel the same love he has for a fellow Bavarian and the love for a Swabian or Swiss germans.

Quote:
If you want to discuss the economics of the situation, you might want to address the cost to the taxpayer which enables the government to provide handouts to ALL illegals.
I'm going to make a new topic to address issues of taxation and illegals. I'll address this and other issues you bring up there.

Quote:
Please explain to me just exactly how the US economy benefits from illegals? Explain to me how much more the US economy will benefit if they are given amnesty? What's going to happen if they get amnesty? They will start making demands from their "employers". Higher wages, better benefits better working conditions and there is a good possibility that many of them will be collecting some sort of government benefit under their former name/SS#. They will try to drive the hourly rate up because they may fall "victim" to having to pay taxes, after having dragged it down. And then what happens? Another wave of illegals will come and take their jobs away.
As noted above, I will address issues of taxation in a new topic. I feel needed to note I favor the free movement of labour. I do not however favor giving everyone citizenship, in so far that it entails them the right to vote on what to do with others money or to receive state welfare that they didn't contribute to. If amnesty would be given I believe the optimal route would be to give the right to adobe, not necessarily citizenship.

Quote:
Do you hear from the Irish, Chinese, Russian, Polish, Indian, Pakistani, Arab countries and every other government telling the US what it should allow and do for their countrymen who are in the US illegally? The only government that is dictating to the US regarding it's own who are in the US illegally is Mexico. How can Mexico state that it doesn't want illegals from South American countries in their country, yet demand that the US keep illegal Mexicans in the US and provide for them?
I'd argue the Israeli lobby has a stronger influence on US politics than the Mexican lobby. Which is not to say that Mexico doesn't have a lobby trying to influence US politics. Nor are either Mexico or Israel the only nations to have lobbies. I don't agree with any of these lobbies, but I think it's unfair to set the argument as Mexico being the only one to have a lobby.

Quote:
America citizens don't owe ANY illegal anything.
I've said this time and time again. I agree. Furthermore, I don't think citizens owe other citizens anything. Nor do I believe illegals owe other illegals. No individual owes another anything for the very act of existing. I oppose the welfare state for this, and several other, reasons.

I do believe that should one feel compelled to give to others they are free to contribute to charity. I do not however see the morality in coercing others to give to a cause that you believe is worth giving to. If you truly believe that a charity is worth giving to, then convince others to the cause. If you cannot convince others of the cause, perhaps it really is only something you worry about.

Making the new topic in the bit. I need to draw the graphs first.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:27 PM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,427,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Do you believe 20+ million illegal aliens, many whom are illiterate, low-skilled, with 5 or 6 children to support, and rely on taxpayers to survive, would enhance YOUR country? If so, please explain.

Regardless, this is not your country, and their presence in ours has absolutely no impact on your quality of life. Try living here, and then get back with us.
Did you forget that we have become the official dumping ground to the world?
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:53 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,716,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
Now my economic policy proposals are libertarian in that I assume that the goal is to create greater wealth while at the same time recognizing the value of allowing individuals to voluntary associate with one another.

Libertarianism at no point recommends a one world government. Nor does it require it. Free movement of people has existed for much of our history (humanity's history) within the multi-state system we live in.

I would argue that, as the US is a federation of sovereign states, we see a free movement all the time when people move across state lines without any internal passports. In Europe free movement has been the norm with the exception of war times. The idea for the Schengen area isn't revolutionary - it's merely a return to normalcy for Europe. The US immigration system was a fairly simple one prior to WW2 and the New Deal. It was this simplicity which is why the very problem of illegal aliens was non existent until after the immigration system became more complex and restrictive post-WW2. Free movement of people isn't this radical idea, far from it, it is the normal state of affairs for the western world.
Your theory involves all who are within the borders, legal or not. This does nothing but invite more to come legal or not and purports to then create a race to the bottom in wages (basic supply and demand). It also places the worker at a disadvantage as now employers will be even less likely to cover the employee being hurt on a job as the employee could then be called an independent contractor. It snowballs from there.

The free movement of people legally here and authorized to work here. The ideals you bring dismiss these requirements for the benefit of the employer.

The "free movement" in Europe is still limited, work authorization is still country dependent and must be applied for, the same with moving to another country with not only the Schengen but the EU overall.

Not as simple as you claim. Immigrants had to be approved to leave by their nation and then had to be approved and verified at our port of entry. This free movement of people are for those that are within the nation itself, citizen or legal immigrant (non-immigrant). Illegals are none of the prior, thusly they are not entitled to any of the benefits. Why do you think states don't recognize them as residents? Why is it that the Feds don't recognize them as immigrants? There are limitations and restrictions on this free movement, even citizens can't simply up and move to another state and become residents of that new state immediately. Each state is still its own sovereign and for the citizen moving there they have a period of proof that they must show in order to be accepted as a resident of the new state.

You seem to over generalize based on your ideology.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
However I stand that the issue is not purely economic, but also consists of a racist fear of migrants. Again, I wish it was purely economic. I really really wish this was true. I would prefer not to walk into a conversation on the matter and hear someone say complain about how "lazy, cowardly, filthy" etc the damn Mexicans were. Occasionally the insults are targeted towards not Mexicans, but a different illegal group. Every time though these remarks are hurtful and deter the conversation from being fruitful.
Perhaps you'd like to explain why one must oppose illegal immigration solely due to economics? I oppose all lawlessness. Economics aside, they are here illegally, and that is reason enough for me.

You are free to believe as you choose. But, as previously stated, there is no racial basis for my opposition to illegal immigration. Furthermore, I have no reason to fear a Mexican migrant, or any other uneducated, low-skilled illegal. Nor have I ever called Mexicans filthy or lazy. I reserve those labels for deserving individuals, and would never make such a statement in reference to an entire nationality. With that said, I will continue to hold my belief regarding their lack of courage for refusing to even attempt to fight to improve conditions at home.

In addition, why should we sugarcoat this issue? We don't hold other lawbreakers in high esteem, so why should illegals be the lone exception? Respect is earned. If they enter this country through legal channels, do not steal identities, commit fraud, drive while drunk, rape, maim, murder, or otherwise victimize the citizens of this country, I assure you, they will be respected by most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
I've never said one isn't entitled to their opinion. Some opinions however are hurtful and racist. Again, I understand people will disagree with my opinion on this issue and I can recognize that they have legitimate reasons for doing so. I can tolerate one saying that illegal Mexicans or Koreans should be respectively deported to Mexico or Korea. To say that all illegals, Mexicans or Koreans, should be deported to Mexico though?

Don't get me wrong. I support open borders regardless of the nation. Mexico's treatment of illegals within its borders is atrocious. My complaint of that remark is that said certain someone implies it just punishment for Mexico's involvement in the issue, i.e. they wish to punish Mexicans in large for the actions of a discrete number of individuals of various nationalities.
Again, with the race card. In your opinion, is it "racist" to oppose ID theft, fraud, tax evasion, and parasitic behavior?

I am not aware of anyone suggesting ALL illegal aliens should be deported to Mexico. I know I haven't. Naturally, illegals should be returned to their countries of origin. However, Mexico and other countries have made it clear, they don't want them. In fact, the U.S. government was forced to release hundreds of thousands of convicted felons because their countries refuse to authorize their return. If their own countries don't want them, why on earth should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
I have made no secret my dislike of the Mexican government. Nor have I made it secret that I don't believe anyone, illegal or legal, has the right to demand the wealth of others through state welfare. I support charities, that is to say voluntary contributions, but at no point do I defend the current system where tax payers pay for net tax recipients.

And yes, Mexicans do compose the majority of illegals. This does not however make the two mutually inclusive of one another. As noted above, it is a discrete number of individuals from various nationalities that compose the illegal community. The whole nation of Mexico should not be blamed for their actions.
I have nothing whatsoever against the citizens of Mexico. However, I do want the Mexican government, and Mexican illegals, to stop abusing U.S. taxpayers. Yes, citizens from other countries are also here illegally. But, compared to Mexico, they're a tiny drop in the bucket. No country, other than Mexico, has at least 10% of its citizens living in the US, the majority here illegally. Nor has any other country consistently tried to dictate our immigration policies. Heck, Calderon even addressed members of Congress, and demonized our citizens for daring to oppose his illegal hordes. Like it or not, Mexico is the primary culprit. Perhaps if Mexico would take care of its citizens, and stop dumping them on us, there wouldn't be so much animosity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
I don't mind the term illegal alien. As I've noted beforehand, I find both the terms 'illegal' and 'undocumented' unsuitable if it's an issue of semantics. As a matter of convenience illegal is preferable, if only because it's shorter.

A better extension of humanity would be not to seek to punish or dehumanize the entire nation of Mexico for the actions of individuals.
I don't blame all of Mexico. But, I do blame the corrupt Mexican government for failing its citizens, and encouraging illegal immigration. I also blame the millions of Mexicans who chose to ignore our laws. Do you consider them blameless?
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