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Old 07-28-2012, 12:05 AM
 
153 posts, read 108,601 times
Reputation: 37

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster
Attempting to count them now would be like trying to count how many cockroaches are scurrying toward the wall when you turn on the light in cheap motel.
Health Care Law Ignores Illegal Immigrants
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
No, you have appealed to the emotional side every time, none of your claims have been logical or fact based, all have been emotionally driven (ethnic prejudice). They have been your opinion based on your emotional appeal. If you had any claimed facts, they have all been refuted, for which you then turn and claim stereotypes, misinformation and ignorance... not to mention a complete lack of human understanding and compassion.
Case in point, it's just easier for the people here to pretend like a point hasn't been made.

There are many posts in this very thread claiming ridiculous stereotypes like illegals commit high rates of crime and have "5 or 6" children. The reality would be that Mexicans, illegal or legal, have only slightly higher birthrates than Americans. The average is around 3, and in both nations has been falling for decades. In fact, Mexico may fall below replacement levels by mid-century. They are also falling in the US. As far as crime, there are quite a few studies out there that show that immigrants, even illegals, actually have lower rates of crime than native citizens. They also tend to have higher rates of small business ownership. Not that anyone here will believe any of that because it doesn't fit the narrative.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Now for how the other side appears. How do you think it appears when someone has an ethnic reason for defending ilegal immigrants? Don't you think any of those inflamatory words could be applied to them? They say we lack compassion for illegal immigrants but where is their compassion for American citizens who have lost their jobs and had their taxes increased because of illegal immigrants?

Contrary to what you believe there is justification for feeling resentful towards illegal immigrants for the reasons cited and also because their presence here is in violation of our laws. That does not equate to bigotry and discrimination.
I'm white and from Ohio. I have no "ethnic reason" to make my arguments. And the justification used relies on information that usually seems to be completely fabricated or so heavily biased that it's difficult or impossible to take seriously. You take any thread in this forum and there are multiple posts with misinformation, stereotypes and lies repeated over and over again.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
There is no discrimination. Rather, a distinction is made between lawful and unlawful behavior, as it should. Where is the "logic" in being an apologist for illegal immigration? We have no idea who they are, how many are here, if they have communicable diseases, or who among them may have nefarious intent.

Given the tragic events on 9/11, it is beyond belief that our government still refuses to adequately secure our borders, or even enforce our laws. Illegals are still entering. So, it isn't rocket science that our borders are not secure. But, since you live in Mexico City, and declined to respond to my question, I will assume you are a Mexican citizen, so why should you care?

Would you have no objection to 12-20+ million Haitians deciding the grass is greener in Mexico, and choosing to enter your country illegally? Would you enjoy paying for their children to attend your schools, including providing SSL classes and free meals? Oh, that's right, only children in Mexico legally may enroll in your public schools. Would you support using your tax dollars to pay for the maternity care for over 4 million births? Again, that would NEVER happen in Mexico. How about paying for their ER visits, organ transplants, kidney dialysis, food, housing, WIC, welfare, and interpreters? Mexico has proven they will not offer any of the benefits and services so generously provided your illegal countrymen in the US. Heck, your returning citizens can't receive even the most basic services for their U.S.-born children. Yet, you have the temerity to take the moral high ground, and question the compassion and character of others.

We should not have this burden, period. Furthermore, I will not allow you or any other person to put me on a guilt trip for opposing this illegal invasion. Nor do I give a damn if you consider my opinion extreme. Try walking in our shoes, and having BILLIONS of your hard-earned tax dollars squandered annually on people who have no right to even be in your country, while your infrastructure is crumbling, and your own citizens are suffering, and then see how benevolent you feel.
It's no surprise you have made assumptions about me, considering you do so every day with other people you don't know. You are completely wrong, of course, and the reason I didn't answer was because my origins (born and raised in Ohio and white), have nothing to do with my arguments here.

And please stop saying it's not about discrimination when you repeat lies about illegals, such as how they have 6 kids. All you're doing is proving my point, that the people here cannot rely on the facts to make their arguments.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Not a thing wrong with discriminating against illegal aliens. Mexico does it to ITS illegals from Guatemala and so on.
Well, at least someone is finally able to admit what it really is.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
It's no surprise you have made assumptions about me, considering you do so every day with other people you don't know. You are completely wrong, of course, and the reason I didn't answer was because my origins (born and raised in Ohio and white), have nothing to do with my arguments here.

And please stop saying it's not about discrimination when you repeat lies about illegals, such as how they have 6 kids. All you're doing is proving my point, that the people here cannot rely on the facts to make their arguments.
Many do in fact support illegal immigration due to racial/ethnic solidarity. However, asking if you are a citizen of Mexico or just visiting would in no way, shape, or form denote your race. Would it?

Are you suggesting there are no illegal aliens living in this country with 6 children, or that they do not tend to give birth at a considerably higher rate while living here as opposed to in Mexico? Give me a few minutes and I will gladly prove my point.

Furthermore, I don't have to use stereotypes, lies, or hyperbole. They are here in violation of our laws. I don't have to justify my opposition. It speaks for itself. On the other hand, you have nothing of substance to defend your position. After all, how does one defend the indefensible? Oh, that's right, by demonizing and vilifying your opponents through baseless accusations of racism and discrimination. Sorry, that won't work. Try again.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:45 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Well, at least someone is finally able to admit what it really is.
Uh; I def Ok with making it very bad here for illegal aliens in the US.
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
jbcmh81, here's your stereotypes and lies. . .


Quote:
In all, the Mexican-American population grew by 11.4 million over the last decade, of which 63 percent came as a result of births. That is a reversal from the previous two decades, when the number of new Mexican immigrants either matched or exceeded the number of Mexican births.
That's over 7 million babies born. Nah, they aren't having babies.

Births, not immigrants, pushing US Latino growth - CBS News


Quote:
Hispanics now represent 50.5 percent of the U.S. population growth since 2000, although they were only 15 percent of the population in 2007.

The Pew report also highlights a significant new driver of the population increases for the nation's largest minority: Unlike the 1990s when immigration was the major factor in Hispanic population growth, births in the U.S. are mostly responsible for the increases this decade.
Hispanics account for more than half of U.S. population growth - Houston Chronicle

Perhaps you'd like to explain how they are not giving birth at a substantially higher rate if they account for more than half of all births in the past decade, while comprising only 15% of the population.

Sorry, I have no data specifically for illegal aliens, because the government doesn't want us to know. But, most Hispanics living in this country legally are not giving birth at the speed of light. They generally only have a couple children, or at least the number they can afford to support. On the other hand, illegals don't care if they can't support their kids, they know Uncle Sucker will.

My dad, who never had an unkind word to say about anyone, one day asked, "Are they ALL pregnant?" I can't speak for you, but I rarely see a lower-class Hispanic female of childbearing age who is not either pregnant, recently gave birth, or has at least 3 or 4 stair steps in tow. That is not a stereotype. It's a direct observation. People are entitled to have as many children as they want, as long as they can support them. But, most of the children born to illegal aliens are being supported by taxpayers.

This is another little tidbit illustrating how illegal aliens fleece U.S. taxpayers. Please note the source is the "lying" U.S. Treasury.

Individuals Who Are Not Authorized to Work in the United States Were Paid $4.2 Billion in Refundable Credits



I can post more "lies" if you'd like to see more.
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:34 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8363
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I'm white and from Ohio. I have no "ethnic reason" to make my arguments. And the justification used relies on information that usually seems to be completely fabricated or so heavily biased that it's difficult or impossible to take seriously. You take any thread in this forum and there are multiple posts with misinformation, stereotypes and lies repeated over and over again.
I didn't say that "you" have an ethnic reason for your views on illegal immigration. There are people who do however.

The pro-illegal immigration side spews enough lies of their own. For example stating that illegal immigrants are only doing jobs that Americans won't do or stating that the taxes they pay covers their overall social costs. Or stating that those of us who want our immigration laws enforced are xenophobes, racists, etc. Isn't that stereotyping? There are more but those are the ones that come to mind.

There may be some misinformation pushed by both sides but shouldn't we all just object to their presence here based on our immigration laws? I'm up for that. How about you?
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
jbcmh81, here's your stereotypes and lies. . .

That's over 7 million babies born. Nah, they aren't having babies.

Births, not immigrants, pushing US Latino growth - CBS News

Hispanics account for more than half of U.S. population growth - Houston Chronicle

Perhaps you'd like to explain how they are not giving birth at a substantially higher rate if they account for more than half of all births in the past decade, while comprising only 15% of the population.

Sorry, I have no data specifically for illegal aliens, because the government doesn't want us to know. But, most Hispanics living in this country legally are not giving birth at the speed of light. They generally only have a couple children, or at least the number they can afford to support. On the other hand, illegals don't care if they can't support their kids, they know Uncle Sucker will.

My dad, who never had an unkind word to say about anyone, one day asked, "Are they ALL pregnant?" I can't speak for you, but I rarely see a lower-class Hispanic female of childbearing age who is not either pregnant, recently gave birth, or has at least 3 or 4 stair steps in tow. That is not a stereotype. It's a direct observation. People are entitled to have as many children as they want, as long as they can support them. But, most of the children born to illegal aliens are being supported by taxpayers.

This is another little tidbit illustrating how illegal aliens fleece U.S. taxpayers. Please note the source is the "lying" U.S. Treasury.

Individuals Who Are Not Authorized to Work in the United States Were Paid $4.2 Billion in Refundable Credits

I can post more "lies" if you'd like to see more.
Are you sure you read your articles in their entirety? Reading the first one alone, it stated that Mexican immigrant birthrates in the US were 2.7 compared to 2.1 for US citizens. So that's less than 1 child difference on average. Not 6. It's actually less than the 3 I stated. Just an FYI, but if you're going to offer links, you better make sure they make the point you think they do.

Other than that, the articles basically state the obvious: Immigrant populations, legal or otherwise, tend to be younger and younger populations tend to have kids, but certainly not anywhere near the rate you stated. Thanks for proving my point that this forum is about bs, not about economics.
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