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Old 07-23-2012, 02:39 AM
 
59 posts, read 36,912 times
Reputation: 47

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Many pro illegal immigrant folks try to make this into a race thing, with some people I'm sure it is. I'm sure there are people that hate Mexicans, because they are Mexican, but most of us that want to see them deported are not.

Here are the cold hard facts.
1. We have massive unemployment
3. Our elite are not creating jobs, they are shipping them overseas
4. We don't have enough jobs for us (legals) alone
5. We have massive debt
6. They are increasing our debt by using our services & not paying taxes
7. If or when the US suffers a massive collapse they will jump ship

This is simply an economic issue, we cannot support or help these people, we don't need these people, we need to get rid of them. Even if there were no illegal aliens here our current infrastructure would be straining itself just by supporting us.

If you are pro illegal aliens, you are either Anti-American, or ignorant of the facts. This is something that will destroy America, and it has nothing to do with racism, or crime, or cartels, or drugs. This stuff will be here with or without them. Americans will find a way to hate, rob, and sell drugs to each other. It has to do with economics, we can't support these people. Right now the US is like a dude that works at 7-11 paying child support for 17 children. It's idiotic.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:46 AM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,167,001 times
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It's also a legal issue. A lot of people care that we have people entering our country without respect for the process, the law and the flag.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:49 AM
 
Location: City of Angels
2,935 posts, read 4,595,474 times
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some studies say theyre a net positive, others say theyre a net negative. the reality of the matter is that theyre not going to destroy your country or save it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:03 AM
 
59 posts, read 36,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
It's also a legal issue. A lot of people care that we have people entering our country without respect for the process, the law and the flag.
That's an issue, but really not an important one, just an emotional one. You never see teens working at fast food restaurants anymore. Just Mexicans and I'm sure not all of them are illegals, but many are. This means teens are becoming adults with no work experience, making it even harder for them to find jobs that don't exist that are rapidly being exported out of our country while millions of people are taking the few jobs still here.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:23 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,772,681 times
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Yes -- for Mexico getting rid of it's least able and poorest classes is a win-win. It doesn't have to put reforms into place, but for the USA, it's extremely stupid to have immigration be about making the USA into the world's flop house and allow third world nations to solve their problems by dumping millions of their indigent classes onto us.

And yes, there are those who would like to see the USA be just like one of those third world nations where there are a handful of elites surrounded by many very low wage peons and servants.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,556,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And yes, there are those who would like to see the USA be just like one of those third world nations where there are a handful of elites surrounded by many very low wage peons and servants.
Sounds like the current admnistration's agenda.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:05 PM
 
3,186 posts, read 5,465,085 times
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If you look at every third world country you will find one thing they ALL have in common. The wealth of the country is controlled by 1% or less of the population. That is what we are now having here..go figure..The illegals flocking here are causing us to become a third world country.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:40 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,167,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner View Post
If you look at every third world country you will find one thing they ALL have in common. The wealth of the country is controlled by 1% or less of the population. That is what we are now having here..go figure..The illegals flocking here are causing us to become a third world country.
Define "Control". The bottom 99% has a majority of the nation's wealth.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:56 AM
 
153 posts, read 108,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAYAYO View Post
Here are the cold hard facts.
1. We have massive unemployment
Removing illegals wouldn't necessarily see a significant decrease in unemployment. Labour supply would decrease, but we'd also see a reduction in the demand for goods and services. We might very well see greater unemployment when we take into account the contraction in demand and lost inefficiency.

Quote:
3. Our elite are not creating jobs, they are shipping them overseas
Shipping a job overseas isn't bad for the economy. To the contrary it is optimal by decreasing labour costs and therefore increasing real (versus nominal) wages.


Quote:
4. We don't have enough jobs for us (legals) alone
Not due to illegal immigration. Certainly not at the level that you and others seem to believe. Want to see greater employment? Remove the minimum wage laws and capital gains tax. The latter will not only increase the number of jobs, but increase wages as well.


Quote:
5. We have massive debt
Caused by the welfare state. This massive debt would exist with or without migrants, legal or illegal, being part of the system.

Quote:
6. They are increasing our debt by using our services & not paying taxes
But OP, they do pay taxes. It's hard to escape paying for sales tax. The tax that funds roads are usually tied with gasoline taxes. Something that I doubt illegals are avoiding buying, unless you proposed they all have electric cars? Even things like property taxes ultimately fall on consumers, i.e. renters, because of how inelastic the demand for housing is.

Quote:
7. If or when the US suffers a massive collapse they will jump ship
How is this an economic argument? All I see is an appeal to patriotism.



Quote:
If you are pro illegal aliens, you are either Anti-American, or ignorant of the facts. This is something that will destroy America, and it has nothing to do with racism, or crime, or cartels, or drugs. This stuff will be here with or without them. Americans will find a way to hate, rob, and sell drugs to each other. It has to do with economics, we can't support these people. Right now the US is like a dude that works at 7-11 paying child support for 17 children. It's idiotic.
For someone who claims to understand the economic issues, you fail to see how the War on Drugs is in fact crucial to this. Haven't you learned the concept of price ceilings?

But despite your lack of knowledge in several areas, you are right in saying that this is an economic issue. It is also a racist issue sadly. All too often you find that, in their attacks against illegals, opponents find it needed to dehumanize them. They call them cowards. They call them lazy. A simple look through this forum shows how prevalent racism is in the matter. I wish there was no racism in this topic, and that it was pure economics. I would gladly discuss the elasticity of property and it's implications on who bears the weight of the property tax (and as such local schooling). But the truth is that racism blinds many from being able to discuss the pure economics of the issue. As someone who has spent half a decade studying economics, it makes me sad.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:21 AM
 
31,710 posts, read 14,622,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
Removing illegals wouldn't necessarily see a significant decrease in unemployment. Labour supply would decrease, but we'd also see a reduction in the demand for goods and services. We might very well see greater unemployment when we take into account the contraction in demand and lost inefficiency.



Shipping a job overseas isn't bad for the economy. To the contrary it is optimal by decreasing labour costs and therefore increasing real (versus nominal) wages.




Not due to illegal immigration. Certainly not at the level that you and others seem to believe. Want to see greater employment? Remove the minimum wage laws and capital gains tax. The latter will not only increase the number of jobs, but increase wages as well.




Caused by the welfare state. This massive debt would exist with or without migrants, legal or illegal, being part of the system.



But OP, they do pay taxes. It's hard to escape paying for sales tax. The tax that funds roads are usually tied with gasoline taxes. Something that I doubt illegals are avoiding buying, unless you proposed they all have electric cars? Even things like property taxes ultimately fall on consumers, i.e. renters, because of how inelastic the demand for housing is.



How is this an economic argument? All I see is an appeal to patriotism.





For someone who claims to understand the economic issues, you fail to see how the War on Drugs is in fact crucial to this. Haven't you learned the concept of price ceilings?

But despite your lack of knowledge in several areas, you are right in saying that this is an economic issue. It is also a racist issue sadly. All too often you find that, in their attacks against illegals, opponents find it needed to dehumanize them. They call them cowards. They call them lazy. A simple look through this forum shows how prevalent racism is in the matter. I wish there was no racism in this topic, and that it was pure economics. I would gladly discuss the elasticity of property and it's implications on who bears the weight of the property tax (and as such local schooling). But the truth is that racism blinds many from being able to discuss the pure economics of the issue. As someone who has spent half a decade studying economics, it makes me sad.
There is so much off about your economic arguments that I wouldn't even know where to begin. I have one question though. You keep referring to illegal immigrants as "they or them". If you are one of "them" shouldn't you be using the word "we"?

There is no place in this issue for words like racism being used against Americans who want our immigration laws enforced. There is no place in this issue for stating that they are being dehumanized either.
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