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Old 07-24-2012, 12:21 AM
 
47,316 posts, read 24,634,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Seeing as how I have ancestry that is Native American Indian they were already on their homeland. (My great-grandfather and grandfather were bridge and high rise construction workers.) As for the rest of them, they, like all immigrants, had something to do with building this country, not destroying it. I'm also sure that they weren't enticed by government handouts as handouts didn't exist at that time.
You've got as much native American ancestry as i have....that would be ZERO. Please, chill with the whole Indian thing.

Again, why didn't your ancestors stay in their native countries and fix the problems there instead of running here? I don't care about all this nonsense about what they built here (because i don't believe that either).

Moreover, the handouts thing is bunk. Please, millions of European immigrants arrived in this country with NOTHING. How do you come here with absolutely nothing, often with children in tow, and you had no help at all from some institution? How do you find housing, get food, get a job, pay for a doctor, if you have nothing?

Revisionist, romantic nonsense.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:28 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 991,320 times
Reputation: 369
Frequently coyotes will have a vehicle pick up illegal aliens, and transport them to safe houses.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:27 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
You've got as much native American ancestry as i have....that would be ZERO. Please, chill with the whole Indian thing.

Again, why didn't your ancestors stay in their native countries and fix the problems there instead of running here? I don't care about all this nonsense about what they built here (because i don't believe that either).

Moreover, the handouts thing is bunk. Please, millions of European immigrants arrived in this country with NOTHING. How do you come here with absolutely nothing, often with children in tow, and you had no help at all from some institution? How do you find housing, get food, get a job, pay for a doctor, if you have nothing?

Revisionist, romantic nonsense.
My people are Irish; when they came here back in the day; the Catholic Church helped as well as the Irish people already here. The US government did NOT give us anything.

My country IS the US; I was born and raised here, both of my parents were born and raised here and 3 of my grandparents the same. 1 came through Ellis Island before 1920. All came here legally.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:29 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Why didn't your ancestors stay in their homeland to try and make it better instead of abandoning it?
Well for one thing do you try to justify slavery because someone's ancestors owned slaves? What some people did 400 years ago is not the argument. Maybe they should have improved their own countries -- ask the Indians about that one -- but what your great great great great great great grandparends did was completely out of your control so it's silly to bring it up.

And no one wants all legal immigration to be stopped, but we don't need millions of lawbreakers coming over the border.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:36 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
You've got as much native American ancestry as i have....that would be ZERO. Please, chill with the whole Indian thing.

Again, why didn't your ancestors stay in their native countries and fix the problems there instead of running here? I don't care about all this nonsense about what they built here (because i don't believe that either).

Moreover, the handouts thing is bunk. Please, millions of European immigrants arrived in this country with NOTHING. How do you come here with absolutely nothing, often with children in tow, and you had no help at all from some institution? How do you find housing, get food, get a job, pay for a doctor, if you have nothing?

Revisionist, romantic nonsense.
The handouts is the whole problem.

These people cannot come to this much higher cost of living country and make it with their lack of education, job skills, even ability to learn the language.

In the past, if an immigrant couldn't make it here, they returned home -- one little known fact because people don't pay attention in history class is that a third of the immigrants in the past returned home within a short time, sometimes just a few months after first arriving. If they couldn't adapt, couldn't make a living, didn't realize how different it was, they got back on those ships and returned home.

Now they'll just hit the welfare offices when they find their 3rd grade foreign education doesn't allow them to support their large families here, when they realize that hospital care isn't affordable here, they simply get themselves and children on Medicaid. When they give birth here, they don't pay the doctors, and government handouts they get for those children will keep them ever from returning home.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:45 AM
 
31,516 posts, read 14,580,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
The generic "built this country" is just misplaced ancestor worship. True genealogy research reveals as many human foibles as we have, trying to eke out a living the same way we are. Immigration was an escape as much then as it is now.
I fail to understand that citing the facts on how this country was built is misplaced ancestor worship.

Regardless of the reasons that immigrants came here long ago and still do today is irrelevant to our immigration laws today. It is about our needs as a nation today. If they don't meet our needs then they are denied entry and must accept that. We can hardly use yesterday's needs and reasons to dictate our immigration policies today. It isn't discrimination but policies changing with the times and based on what our current needs are.

I guess I don't understand this constant reference in regards to illegal immigrants that they are coming here for the same reasons that immigrants did long ago. It is totally irrevelant as an argument for illegal immigration.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,552,655 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
[;25310197]You've got as much native American ancestry as i have....that would be ZERO. Please, chill with the whole Indian thing.
And you know that how?

Quote:
Again, why didn't your ancestors stay in their native countries and fix the problems there instead of running here? I don't care about all this nonsense about what they built here (because i don't believe that either).
So, if I understand you, this country was not built by immigrants. Then who exactly did build it? Personally I don't care what you believe or don't believe.

Quote:
Moreover, the handouts thing is bunk. Please, millions of European immigrants arrived in this country with NOTHING. How do you come here with absolutely nothing, often with children in tow, and you had no help at all from some institution? How do you find housing, get food, get a job, pay for a doctor, if you have nothing?
The Irish helped the Irish, the Italians helped the Italians, the Germans helped the Germans, and so forth. First thing immigrants did was to learn English. Alot of help usually came in the form of a loan shark. You certainly know the history of this country.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,552,655 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
The generic "built this country" is just misplaced ancestor worship. True genealogy research reveals as many human foibles as we have, trying to eke out a living the same way we are. Immigration was an escape as much then as it is now.
There's a difference between then and now.

Then: there were no government programs or government handouts. Immigrants knew that in order to survive they had to work hard. They knew that there were two options: succeed or fail. Failure meant returning back to their country. They couldn't rely on government handouts because there weren't any.

Now: That mentality does not exist in the majority of immigrants that come to the US. What they do know is that they have a financial safety net provided by the governemtn which will take care of all their needs.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,138,805 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
There's a difference between then and now.

Then: there were no government programs or government handouts. Immigrants knew that in order to survive they had to work hard. They knew that there were two options: succeed or fail. Failure meant returning back to their country. They couldn't rely on government handouts because there weren't any.

Now: That mentality does not exist in the majority of immigrants that come to the US. What they do know is that they have a financial safety net provided by the governemtn which will take care of all their needs.
We make is very easy to exist in this country if you are an illegal. If you are a grandmother stuck in the inner city slums trying to raise your grandchildren and keep them away from gangs, you get your house firebombed by thugs, or shot at and a meager existence if any at all. We keep importing new poverty with this insanity at the border and ignore and take funds away from our own people.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Why didn't your ancestors stay in their homeland to try and make it better instead of abandoning it?
The topic is ILLEGAL immigration. In other words, people who are here in violation of our immigration laws. The point being, the immigrants you referenced were granted permission to enter this country, as are legal immigrants of today. Their reasons for coming are irrelevant. Do you consider an invited guest to your home the same as a burglar who breaks your window and enters without your permission? If not, then you should also understand the difference between legal and illegal immigration.
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