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Old 10-04-2007, 11:26 AM
 
1,484 posts, read 3,697,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
Again I think we are talking a minority of 12 million illegals here in the US are in murdering gangs.
So what do we do with the "minority" of the illegals that are violent?

Again they are here because we allow illegal immigration, if they werent there wouldnt be a "minority of 12 million illegals who commit violent crimes" to start with.
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:52 PM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Fair enough: where is the 'heart' of Latinos in Mexico to fight for their rights in their homeland yet some of them have the chutzpah to demand stuff here El Norte?
they can protest without getting shot here. the whole dying thing can really affect someone's decision making.
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:55 PM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducter View Post
So what do we do with the "minority" of the illegals that are violent?
put them in jail. you can make room by letting out all the drug users and getting them appropriate help.

Quote:
Again they are here because we allow illegal immigration, if they werent there wouldnt be a "minority of 12 million illegals who commit violent crimes" to start with.
allowing illegal immigration has also benefitted some americans, and many honest, hard working PEOPLE that just happen to live in mexico. we would be giving up our humanitarianism to keep out a few criminals. it is not a sane course of action. innocent until proven guilty, then punished accordingly. one of the provisions on a streamlined, free, legal immigration process would be criminal record. simple. you cant keep out people because they might commit a crime. otherwise, we'd have no immigration. and that is not what this country stands for.
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:58 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,048 posts, read 21,158,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
they can protest without getting shot here. the whole dying thing can really affect someone's decision making.
And yet those in Myanmar found their cojones to do just that and stand up at the peril of being shot down instead of fleeing into neighboring countries - and their flight would be JUSTIFIABLE because they would be seeking political and religious assylum, not simply fleeing from a crappy life of poverty at the hands of their corrupt government.
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
And yet those in Myanmar found their cojones to do just that and stand up at the peril of being shot down instead of fleeing into neighboring countries - and their flight would be JUSTIFIABLE because they would be seeking political and religious assylum, not simply fleeing from a crappy life of poverty at the hands of their corrupt government.
so a bunch of people died, nothing changed, and that is what it takes to be granted asylum? that makes sense. "hey mexicans, dont ask for our help until at least 10000 of you die". why not eliminate the whole dying part and just help a brother out?
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:08 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,048 posts, read 21,158,596 times
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That's not how it works ghost. But you might not understand, since using mary jane tends to impair perception. I'll try to break it down.

Political asylum is for those who are fleeing persecution in their country for political reasons.

Religious persecution is when people are not allowed to practice their faith for fear of harm.

People who are living in poverty, but are otherwise let to make their own choices, are not considered qualified for asylum. There are few countries in the world that do not have some poor citizens.

There is no war going on in Mexico, no one is being terrorized for their political leanings, and everyone gets to practice whatever religion they choose. If someone from Mexico were in fact being persecuted for their religious beliefs or political leanings, then they could legitimately seek asylum. They would of course have to prove that returning home could mean their death. But we all know that the primary reason people are fleeing Mexico is that they can't get a piece of the Mexican pie, so they are paying coyotes $1000s to help them come steal a piece of the US pie, because they have heard the stories from their families and friends about how foolish the US gov't is and how easy it is to get them to hand over free money and care for doing squat. No one blames them for wanting to take a ride on the gravy train - we just want to stop running the gravy train at our expense!

Kids in the US are being pushed out of a chance at a half way decent education because of the zoning violations these squatters are perpetrating throughout the country. There are laws on the books about occupancy, and they are being disregarded systematically. In our school district, we have achieved critical mass - playgrounds have been sacrificed for all the trailers to accommodate the burgeoning population, orchestra and other useful classes have been foresaken to make financial room for ESL demands, kids who are getting free and reduced lunches for financial reasons wear $200 designer clothes and tennis shoes and sport cell phones. And after all is said and done, all the $$billions are thrown at the illegal alien's children, less than half of them even bother to graduate high school. As soon as new schools are erected, the cretins deface and vandalize the common areas so they can feel "more right at home".

Maybe US citizens would feel more inclined to "help a brother out" if that brother didn't act like such a disrespectful, ingrateful jerk with a false sense of entitlement biting the hands that feed them. Maybe if they took some pride in their communities and stop turning our neighborhoods into replicas of the squalor they left behind to get away from, and actually tried to adopt the way of the USA which obviously brought them here to begin with, then people would be more receptive. Sorry, but it is what it is.
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:24 PM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
That's not how it works ghost. But you might not understand, since using mary jane tends to impair perception. I'll try to break it down.

Political asylum is for those who are fleeing persecution in their country for political reasons.

Religious persecution is when people are not allowed to practice their faith for fear of harm.

People who are living in poverty, but are otherwise let to make their own choices, are not considered qualified for asylum. There are few countries in the world that do not have some poor citizens.

There is no war going on in Mexico, no one is being terrorized for their political leanings, and everyone gets to practice whatever religion they choose. If someone from Mexico were in fact being persecuted for their religious beliefs or political leanings, then they could legitimately seek asylum.
apparently you are unfamiliar with mexico. there are political persecutions. there are people that die defending their politics. what do you think the zapatista army represents? just because their deaths aren't on headline news doesn't mean they aren't happening. how does a rebel political force at war with the mexican government not a direct qualification for asylum? any people that side with the zapatista movement would certainly qualify.

Quote:
They would of course have to prove that returning home could mean their death.
you cant prove that.

Quote:
But we all know that the primary reason people are fleeing Mexico is that they can't get a piece of the Mexican pie, so they are paying coyotes $1000s to help them come steal a piece of the US pie, because they have heard the stories from their families and friends about how foolish the US gov't is and how easy it is to get them to hand over free money and care for doing squat.
you make assumptions that people: 1. use coyotes all the time and 2. are here solely to mooch. to deny that some illegal immigrants come here to work, and pay taxes on their paychecks, is denying fact. collective labeling is considered bigoted. bigot - a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. cant argue with the dictionary.

Quote:
No one blames them for wanting to take a ride on the gravy train - we just want to stop running the gravy train at our expense!
then fix their government. that is the only way that immigration will come to a halt. how many times do we have to try and punish the relentless crossers before we realize that the law is having no real effect on the problem?

Quote:
Kids in the US are being pushed out of a chance at a half way decent education because of the zoning violations these squatters are perpetrating throughout the country.
my parents were both teachers. they were highly educated and informed on the politics of education. domestic policy and socioeconomic grouping were the main contributors to the education problem, amongst informed members of the actual profession.

Quote:
There are laws on the books about occupancy, and they are being disregarded systematically. In our school district, we have achieved critical mass - playgrounds have been sacrificed for all the trailers to accommodate the burgeoning population, orchestra and other useful classes have been foresaken to make financial room for ESL demands, kids who are getting free and reduced lunches for financial reasons wear $200 designer clothes and tennis shoes and sport cell phones.
a lot of the problem with crowding have to do with federal management of education and its funding. i mean, the government is responsible for how many people are legally allowed to attend any given school or classroom, and the school officials are responsible for seeing the enforcement through. how do you determine which kids get denied schooling?

Quote:
And after all is said and done, all the $$billions are thrown at the illegal alien's children, less than half of them even bother to graduate high school.
i would love to see your source for this.

Quote:
As soon as new schools are erected, the cretins deface and vandalize the common areas so they can feel "more right at home".
source this, too, please.

Quote:
Maybe US citizens would feel more inclined to "help a brother out" if that brother didn't act like such a disrespectful, ingrateful jerk with a false sense of entitlement biting the hands that feed them. Maybe if they took some pride in their communities and stop turning our neighborhoods into replicas of the squalor they left behind to get away from, and actually tried to adopt the way of the USA which obviously brought them here to begin with, then people would be more receptive. Sorry, but it is what it is.
this is bigoted thinking. it does not hold true for every illegal immigrant, which is why it is bigoted. by definition. sorry, but it is what it is.
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:55 PM
 
1,484 posts, read 3,697,700 times
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Default I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
put them in jail. you can make room by letting out all the drug users and getting them appropriate help.
But how are we supposed to do this for the whole world? We cant just do this for one country since that would be racist.

I mean we are allowing illegals in so now we have to let illegals from the whole world in because if not we are racist

Soo how to we afford or do this?

It is not the US responsability to pay for housing illegals in our jails, they should be in MExico jails or can you tell me why not?
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:57 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,059 posts, read 15,467,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducter View Post
But how are we supposed to do this for the whole world? We cant just do this for one country since that would be racist.

I mean we are allowing illegals in so now we have to let illegals from the whole world in because if not we are racist

Soo how to we afford or do this?

It is not the US responsability to pay for housing illegals in our jails, they should be in MExico jails or can you tell me why not?
I think billing the country of origin is fair, as long as the people have migrated on their own accord, we don't need another slavery episode.
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:04 PM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducter View Post
But how are we supposed to do this for the whole world? We cant just do this for one country since that would be racist.
we arent expected to do it for the whole world. the immigrants that actually physically come here we should intake, and if there is a massive influx, we should figure out the reason why they are coming over in such large numbers. usually the root of the problem is where the solution lies.

Quote:
I mean we are allowing illegals in so now we have to let illegals from the whole world in because if not we are racist

Soo how to we afford or do this?
yes, we should. but look around, is every person coming here? no. just a few from countries all over the world, and the largest chunk coming in from our geographic neighbor to the south, which is also much poorer. that is how the pattern will continue, as it takes too much money to travel to the united states for all those not geographically neighbored.

Quote:
It is not the US responsability to pay for housing illegals in our jails, they should be in MExico jails or can you tell me why not?

they would be breaking american law, not mexican law. it is our written law that warrants jailspace. it is a necessary cost of having and enforcing laws.
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