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Old 07-29-2012, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,038,716 times
Reputation: 601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I have no idea what your "data loss" issue entailed. What's your point?

The fact remains, countless citizens have been victimized by criminal aliens. A single SSN is often used by as many as 100 people to gain employment. As far as the IRS is concerned, the cardholder has unreported wages, for which they are assessed thousands of dollars in penalties and interest, if not tax liens, and emptied bank accounts. In addition, their credit is ruined when illegals use their SSN for mortgage/car loans, bank accounts, and credit cards; frequently leaving their victims with a history of payment defaults and overdrawn accounts. They generally endure nightmarish years of trying to prove they are the victim of ID theft and fraud. Sadly, many never regain their good credit rating or restore their reputation.

If not for illegal alien crooks, who singlehandedly destroyed the integrity of the SSN as our longstanding method for work authorization and other transactions, we would not need to modify our current procedures or ID verification process. Clearly, come hell or high water, you will continue to use lame excuse after lame excuse in an attempt to assuage their guilt. You obviously have an extremely compelling motive.

Illegal immigrants turn to identity theft - Technology & science - Security - NBCNews.com

Hidden cost of illegal immigration: ID theft - Red Tape

Identity theft linked to illegal immigration...
No, I just don't think identity theft will go away if all illegal aliens were removed...

My point was that my Social Security number (and that of other servicemembers) was compromised in an ridiculous environment where the "Service Number" is the same as the Social Security number, and can't be scapegoated to illegal aliens...

 
Old 07-29-2012, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,886,915 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
No, I just don't think identity theft will go away if all illegal aliens were removed...
No, it will not. However, prior to massive illegal immigration, we did not have an issue with SSN ID theft. Now, it is rampant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
My point was that my Social Security number (and that of other servicemembers) was compromised in an ridiculous environment where the "Service Number" is the same as the Social Security number, and can't be scapegoated to illegal aliens...
And, this changes what? You are one person. Millions have had their ID stolen by illegals.
 
Old 07-29-2012, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,038,716 times
Reputation: 601
But we have a lackadaisical society that uses our Social Security numbers as identification unrelated to banking or taxation...

Violent crime is down in most areas, how does that link in to illegal immigration?...
 
Old 07-29-2012, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,886,915 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
But we have a lackadaisical society that uses our Social Security numbers as identification unrelated to banking or taxation...

Violent crime is down in most areas, how does that link in to illegal immigration?...
The fact remains, the majority of SSN ID theft is committed by illegal aliens, primarily for employment. However, they also "borrow" a SSN for myriad fraudulent purposes, including driver's licenses, credit cards, apartment rentals, mortgage/car loans, etc, etc, etc. The increase in SSN ID theft has been proven to have a direct link to illegal immigration. After all, a SSN is legally issued to citizens.

So, now this is a discussion on violent crime? In any case, many violent crimes committed by illegal aliens are never reported. But, if we had ZERO crime, it would still not justify illegal immigration.
 
Old 07-29-2012, 05:23 PM
 
32,123 posts, read 14,840,147 times
Reputation: 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by transatlantic View Post
Our cleaning lady (who is a paragon of virtue and the world's best cleaning lady) is Brazilian. She has lived (illegally) in my city for at least 10 years with her husband, also Brazilian, an illegal construction work who works on construction sites run by (legal) Portuguese immigrants. She brought her daughter over. She is also a cleaning lady, she brought her son over (don't know what he does) and her daughter-in-law (also a cleaning lady). Her daughter-in-law gave birth very prematurely to a baby who has severe complications (cerebral palsy). I was afraid her grandchild would not qualify for health care, but he does.

My cleaning lady's husband got drunk one Saturday, a couple of years ago. He got into a fight with his son-in-law and neighbors called the cops. I was scared we'd lose our beloved cleaning lady when the cops found out she was illegal (there were some razzias on Filipina cleaning ladies a few years ago, though some were being exploited for prostitution as well as being cleaning ladies). No problemo! She's still here and still amazing me with her housekeeping skills! She even has been able to be admitted to a private health insurance scheme - so if she gets sick and can't come to work, she gets paid anyway (I tried once to pay her when she'd been off sick and she explained how she already gets reimbursed.. she is not only one of the world's greatest cleaning ladies she is an ethical example to us all).
Words really escape me here.
 
Old 07-29-2012, 05:26 PM
 
32,123 posts, read 14,840,147 times
Reputation: 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by transatlantic View Post
I surmise that you have never been to Western Europe. Western Europeans have a higher standard of living than Americans do. They are very spoiled and - like Ann Romney - they need staff! I doubt Ann Romney's cleaning ladies, grandkids' nannies, housekeepers, butlers, chauffeurs, stable boys, pool boys, gardeners, etc., etc. are U.S. citizens, don't you?

I have not - in the past 20 years** - encountered a Western European cleaning lady, nor have I encountered (in any hotel I've stayed in) Western European staff. None of my friends and colleagues have ever had a European cleaning lady or nanny. They do not appear to exist.

Go to Marbella, Spain and try to find a waiter who does not speak Spanish with a Central American accent. The cleaning ladies there, too, all are Latin American. In the UK, people occupying these low-level jobs tend to be Poles - who are, more or less, legal now. The Poles don't seem to be attracted by the countries on the Continent - they just love England.

I spent a week in Prague last year. Beautiful city. All the housekeeping staff in the very nice hotel were from French-speaking Africa - which was handy for me, because I speak French.. makes a change from trying to communicate with Polish housekeeping staff in London hotels.

As another poster pointed out, Filippina girls have been targetted by police in several countries (including the one I live in) and their populations have been replaced by girls and women from sub-Saharan Africa and Latin America.

** to qualify: over 20 years ago, Portuguese cleaning ladies were common... 25 years ago, Spanish cleaning ladies were common and 30 years ago, Italian cleaning ladies had the corner on the market... they've gone on to better paid careers I assume because they don't exist anymore.
What nationality is your cleaning lady?
My wife is my cleaning lady (along with my help) and she is an American citizen and so am I.
 
Old 07-29-2012, 05:42 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,045,563 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Citizens with no children attending public schools still pay property taxes. I paid property taxes in MD for 13 years while my son attended private schools. Heck, I pay property taxes in MD and PA, and I haven't lived in PA in years. Big deal. Non-citizens receive plenty of tax-funded services in this country. I seriously doubt their taxes cover all costs. Again, if they don't like our laws, they are free to remain in their countries of origin.

Oh, by the way, I borrowed that section of my law from Mexico's policy.
That was your choice though to send your child to private schools. Citizens without children pay property taxes, but so do green-card holders w/o children. If green-card holders were levied a different tax rate, then I can understand your argument. Long term green-card holders pay the same taxes required so I still don't understand why they should be barred from public schools. If anything, that is poor public policy as public schools, especially at a young age, is the best environment for children of non-citizens to assimilate in to American culture, thereby indirectly making non-citizens more aware and follow our customs.

Some of your points are good, but this one is ridiculous. I can understand barring illegals from public schools, but not legal residents.

I agree with the dual-citizen thing with you as well.
 
Old 07-29-2012, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,886,915 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by mufc1878 View Post
That was your choice though to send your child to private schools. Citizens without children pay property taxes, but so do green-card holders w/o children. If green-card holders were levied a different tax rate, then I can understand your argument. Long term green-card holders pay the same taxes required so I still don't understand why they should be barred from public schools. If anything, that is poor public policy as public schools, especially at a young age, is the best environment for children of non-citizens to assimilate in to American culture, thereby indirectly making non-citizens more aware and follow our customs.

Some of your points are good, but this one is ridiculous. I can understand barring illegals from public schools, but not legal residents.

I agree with the dual-citizen thing with you as well.
Yes, it was my choice, and I am not complaining. I merely used that to illustrate many pay property taxes without receiving the benefit of a tax-funded education for their children.

I understand your opposition to my public school policy. I can also appreciate the fact that many legal non-citizens live in this country for years, and do in fact pay taxes. However, as previously stated, non-citizens avail themselves of countless tax-funded services and activities -- unrestricted travel on tax-funded roads, trash removal, snow removal, police/fire/EMS, public parks, museums, monuments, libraries, and swimming pools, to name a few. In addition, by law, they must be treated in our ERs, even if they have no means to pay. In some jurisdictions, non-citizens, including illegal aliens, are permitted to vote in local elections. Takoma Park, MD comes to mind. Should there be no benefit to U.S. citizenship?

I am not "barring" children from our public schools. I am only requiring that non-citizens pay for ESL classes, in addition to a nominal fee to help defray the huge costs for salaries and books. It could even be determined by family income.

We are currently paying billions of dollars annually for the K-12 education for non-citizens. Unfortunately, we have received a very poor return on our investment, because the majority, in particular, the children of illegal aliens, do not graduate from high school. Clearly, they do not appreciate our generosity. Otherwise, they would not squander such a vital opportunity. We can no longer afford this huge expense for people who are not citizens of this country. Perhaps if they were required to pay, they would place more value on an education. If nothing else, it would force parents to encourage their children to learn, because they would then be wasting their money, not ours.
 
Old 07-29-2012, 11:50 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,045,563 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, it was my choice, and I am not complaining. I merely used that to illustrate many pay property taxes without receiving the benefit of a tax-funded education for their children.

I understand your opposition to my public school policy. I can also appreciate the fact that many legal non-citizens live in this country for years, and do in fact pay taxes. However, as previously stated, non-citizens avail themselves of countless tax-funded services and activities -- unrestricted travel on tax-funded roads, trash removal, snow removal, police/fire/EMS, public parks, museums, monuments, libraries, and swimming pools, to name a few. In addition, by law, they must be treated in our ERs, even if they have no means to pay. In some jurisdictions, non-citizens, including illegal aliens, are permitted to vote in local elections. Takoma Park, MD comes to mind. Should there be no benefit to U.S. citizenship?

I am not "barring" children from our public schools. I am only requiring that non-citizens pay for ESL classes, in addition to a nominal fee to help defray the huge costs for salaries and books. It could even be determined by family income.

We are currently paying billions of dollars annually for the K-12 education for non-citizens. Unfortunately, we have received a very poor return on our investment, because the majority, in particular, the children of illegal aliens, do not graduate from high school. Clearly, they do not appreciate our generosity. Otherwise, they would not squander such a vital opportunity. We can no longer afford this huge expense for people who are not citizens of this country. Perhaps if they were required to pay, they would place more value on an education. If nothing else, it would force parents to encourage their children to learn, because they would then be wasting their money, not ours.
I appreciate your argument, however in my experience there is a huge difference between the illegal population and the legal non-citizen population.

Your point about non-citizens (who are legal) that use many of the tax-payer services provided, are services that they are paying for at the same levied tax rate(s), whether it is for roads, public schools, or etc.

There are benefits to a US citizenship. Favorable student loan/college admission pool, access to federal jobs/security clearances, and the ability to vote in federal elections.

I lived in Bethesda for 2 years and non-citizen green-card holders are some of the best neighbors and community members I knew; not to mention some of the most intelligent. The assertion that the children of non-citizens (and I am speaking ONLY about green-card holders or legal residents) are poor performing is ridiculous, especially coming from someone in the DC area. TJ over in Fairfax, Walt Whitman, Churchill, Silver Spring Magnet program are some of the many public schools in the DC area that have hordes of extremely high performing Indian and Asian children of green-card holders who routinely rank among the highest in their class and go on to the most elite of universities.

When it comes to the public school issue, you are mixing up the illegal population with the legal/non-citizen population when they are two completely different groups.
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