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Old 07-27-2012, 09:50 PM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
OK but once they reach adulthood, should they be held for something they did as a child? Or rather what their parents did?

Should an adult be ticketed because their parents didn't make them wear a seat belt when they were 3?
If the parents committed the wrongdoing then neither the child nor the parents should be rewarded for it.

 
Old 07-27-2012, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,151 posts, read 26,616,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Nope, catch them in the act, enforce it and get your money back.

Now if the kid gets away with it for 15 years (until 18), turns your money into a striving business....do you get to take the entire business away from the kid?
That would be building a business on a rotten foundation.

It's like robbing a bank and using the money to build a business. Ill-gotten gains.
 
Old 07-27-2012, 10:43 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Well there is more controversy here, because not only do you anti's want the 3 year old (brought here as illegal) to be deported when they turn 18 and applying for college. But you also demean the kids born here to illegals that are rightfully US citizens by calling them "Anchor babies" and want to reverse the right, WHICH IS RIGHT by LAW.
A "right by law"? Are you aware that rights can and are regulated and are limiting by nature of being a right? What "law" grants illegals children born here automatic citizenship? HINT: there is no "law", it is but mere policy from the DoS FAM as interpreted (the 14th Amendment) by the administration. And I have previously shown that mere birth on US soil does not make one an automatic citizen in numerous other comments to include citing an Obama DoS officer as stating, "at best illegals children born here may be US nationals."

I actually want the 3 year old deported before it avails itself of an education at my expense. If it reaches 18 prior to being caught then when it is caught it still needs to be deported, applying for college has no bearing on its illegal status. If it should make it into college, it should be paying out of state fees or foreign student fees with no grants or scholarships, since the illegal has no right to be here (see how "rights" limit ones ability?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Some would argue if a child does it, the consequence should be less to none.
Is deportation an act for a consequence (its actually only a penalty for violating federal law - regulatory procedure; its not really a punishment but mere restitution, restoring the status quo, making things like they were before the violation happened.) or is a Federal Class 4 Misdemeanor (EWI is actually a crime - punitive procedure, actual punishment involving jail time) a consequence deserving punishment? Of the 2, is not deportation less? The child is still under the responsibility of the parent(s) until age 18 at which point the child becomes its own person. Understanding the consequences for ones actions can be had at an earlier age, some as young as 14 being tried as adults.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 07-27-2012 at 11:08 PM..
 
Old 07-27-2012, 11:55 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,470,148 times
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We just don't agree, either do many others including the POTUS. Therein lies the controversy. Most of you in this forum are hard-liners...many out in the general populace are more realistic, especially when it comes to kids.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 12:19 AM
 
153 posts, read 108,601 times
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No.

Violation of legislation is not always bad. In fact - it can be morally good! It's been less than a century since the prohibition era ended. During prohibition people didn't stop drinking. They went to the black market to get their alcohol, and you had the rise of gangs importing illegal beverages from Canada and Mexico. I don't think the common man was angry at others for violating the law and drinking illegal beer. He probably drank some himself. I wouldn't go as far to say that I applauded mobsters killing people, but I would consider them good people in so far that they provided people with what they wanted: beer. In the same way, I dislike 'coyotes' who abuse of illegal aliens and don't care for illegal aliens who are net tax recipients. Illegal aliens in by themselves though? Love them. Those who hire them? Love them as well. They respectively know what they want and don't care that a third person doesn't want them to have it.

The men who thought it was their duty to plan where people moved? Not so big a fan of them. The human spirit is inclined to liberty. Man wants to be free to drink, eat, and read what he wants. Sometimes the best food is across the border, why stop him from doing so?



I for one eagerly await for the end of this latest prohibition!
 
Old 07-28-2012, 06:31 AM
 
1,922 posts, read 1,439,538 times
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This may sound like a contradiction, but I do feel bad for anyone who was brought over as a young child, who has done well in school, stayed out of trouble, been a good person, and was doing the best with the circumstance he or she was put in, has assimilated and who's first loyalty (as far as nations go) is the USA, and now finds themself in some immigration trouble. I mean people who grew up here and are now adults.

I would hate to pull the rug out from under his or her feet.

This is all the more reason to stop illegal immigration so it doesn't create these situations.

Last edited by Greg_IA; 07-28-2012 at 07:42 AM..
 
Old 07-28-2012, 07:19 AM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
We just don't agree, either do many others including the POTUS. Therein lies the controversy. Most of you in this forum are hard-liners...many out in the general populace are more realistic, especially when it comes to kids.
I would argue that those who think our immigration laws should be enforced selectively as our president is doing are the hardliners. Your side tries to make it "about the kids" when we are making it about the parent's actions and should therefore be deported along with their kids here illegally. It is in the national interest to do so otherwise it makes a mockery out of our immigration laws and encourages more illegal immigration.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 07:45 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
OK but once they reach adulthood, should they be held for something they did as a child? Or rather what their parents did?

Should an adult be ticketed because their parents didn't make them wear a seat belt when they were 3?
If taking about a kid who was brought here illegally or even over stayed a visa, and has no papers today; he needs to be deported age 18 or not. The ONLY time I'd look the other way is if that kid's parents dumped him; but he'd still have to be under age 18. Once over, too bad.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 08:36 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
We just don't agree, either do many others including the POTUS. Therein lies the controversy. Most of you in this forum are hard-liners...many out in the general populace are more realistic, especially when it comes to kids.
All POTUS has done was use the policy he has had in front of him, why didn't he do it 3 years ago? His policy does not give any legal status to DREAMER's it only lowers them on the priority scale, they still have no legal status. If they are caught for any reason they can still be deported. It's not a fact of being a hard-liner, its simply understanding the laws and policies that are there. The general populace more realistic? I fear you are listening to hyperbole about polls and there information, its all in the interpretation/understanding or lack there of in many instances.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
We just don't agree, either do many others including the POTUS. Therein lies the controversy. Most of you in this forum are hard-liners...many out in the general populace are more realistic, especially when it comes to kids.
But, they aren't kids, they're adults. Remember, the age limit is 30. We don't make special provisions for adult citizens whose parents were involved in unlawful behavior during their childhood. So, why should we for illegals?

This is way too broad. I probably wouldn't object as much if it were limited to Dreamies who have already proven themselves by being college graduates, with no arrest record. But, this BS of offering deferred action to anyone "in school" or with a high school diploma/GED is ridiculous. They are already scheming on ways to use loopholes to qualify. Even those over the age of 30 have found ways to circumvent this nonsense.

Possible Loophole in deferred action? Read - DREAM Act Portal Forum

Dreamers with misdemanors - dui - DREAM Act Portal Forum

If a dreamer has a history of working under the table - DREAM Act Portal Forum

Deferred action after I left - DREAM Act Portal Forum

Multiple misdemeanors, will not count against you if: - DREAM Act Portal Forum

Also, the entry age should be lowered. Why should a 20 y/o who entered this country at 15 qualify? Don't tell me they have no memory of their homeland, and are unable to speak the language. Nor did they "grow up" here. And, let's not forget, thousands entered this country in their teens of their own volition. They didn't accompany their parents. They weren't forced to come. They chose to come, just like millions of adults. Why should they be rewarded for their decision to violate our laws? This is far from cut and dry, and there are way too many aspects of this directive that need to be revised. Make no mistake, fraud will be rampant, and as usual, U.S. citizens will be left holding the bag to the tune of hundreds of millions of our tax dollars.

Most important, they will be competing against our youth for jobs. I have a huge problem with that. If we don't start making our own citizens a priority, this country is doomed. No other country would sacrifice its own citizens for foreigners, especially if they are living in the country illegally.

As for Obama agreeing, again, he's doing nothing but pandering. This has nothing whatsoever to do with his humanitarian nature. Had he actually been so concerned about these "kids" he had a Democratic majority in the House and Senate, but didn't touch this issue. In fact, he ignored CIR and the Dream Act after promising he would make immigration a priority during his first 100 days in office. Even some Dreamies realize his true motives for issuing this order.

It would be a different story during a period of low unemployment and economic prosperity. While I would still oppose rewarding lawlessness, I would be much more receptive to offering something to a select group of Dreamies. But, this is beyond the pale. You don't allow your children to go to bed hungry, and then feed a stranger. I'm sorry, you just don't.
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