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Old 08-01-2012, 10:26 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,100,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So why blame Obama about anything to do with a border fence?...



There is data even being put up by your own side:

"...the Border Patrol aren't capturing as many illegal aliens as they did before..."
"...they're catching the same guy as he enters over and over..."
"...Obama is counting those caught at the border as 'deportations'..."




Actually Obama got some heat for having many deportations that were not felons. He's specifically identified that he wants recent entries (because they are less inclined to be bound to a life here) caught as soon as they cross. Despite a full physical fence not being created in all areas, the 'virtual fence' with sensors and infrared cameras is viewed as being more effective (catch illegal aliens within a border buffer zone, rather than expecting only monitoring at the fence itself to be able to stop entry).

'Fast and Furious' is a topic to itself, and the reality hinges on that the gun purchasers were fully legal buyers, with the ATF having their hands tied by the 2nd Amendment, and unwilling prosecutors...

We need references.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
We need references.
Yes, you (generically speaking) do need to provide references (I was paraphrasing what I hear on this forum)...
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4ric View Post
Just a thought,,,,

How many reserve units are in the USA ??? reserve units have to do a 2 week rotation once a year, why not have them do a rotation on the boarder ? solve two things at the same time.

Just think, all the Army, Marine, Air Force, Navy etc reserve units standing post on our boarders
It is spelled "border" in this instance...

National Guard (different organization from the Reserves) are also under moderate control from that state's governor. They, as well as some units like Navy Seabees (to construct portions of fence out of old temporary landing strip plates) have been deployed to the border before. In some cases, young troops put in that environment are viewed as a liability, in other cases (i.e. Navy, Air Force, Air National Guard) it may be quite different from their fields.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:20 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,775,361 times
Reputation: 4446
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
You said it all in a nutshell. WTF did it become so difficult to have American's laws enforced. If we at all mattered to the Prez, he would see to it that our borders wer protected. And stop the flow of illegals coming into this Country.
as long as we have only some people following the laws in this country, this country is not going to improve.

we see it in the government.

we see it in illegal immigration.

we see it in the banking system.

i sure as heck see it in fraudulent housing deals now-there is so much fraud going on in this foreclosures and housing deals that it really is a tragedy for america.

america did better when we had laws and leaders who enforced them.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:24 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,775,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
You said it all in a nutshell. WTF did it become so difficult to have American's laws enforced. If we at all mattered to the Prez, he would see to it that our borders wer protected. And stop the flow of illegals coming into this Country.
as long as we have only some people following the laws in this country, this country is not going to improve.

we see it in the government.

we see it in illegal immigration.

we see it in the banking system, and on wall street.

i sure as heck see it in fraudulent housing deals now-there is so much fraud going on in this foreclosures and housing deals that it really is a tragedy for america. (not to mention the squatters and non-rent/mortgage payers who are only spending because they aren't paying their bills so we can have the "illusion" of good times now).

america did better when we had laws and leaders who enforced them.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
It is spelled "border" in this instance...

National Guard (different organization from the Reserves) are also under moderate control from that state's governor. They, as well as some units like Navy Seabees (to construct portions of fence out of old temporary landing strip plates) have been deployed to the border before. In some cases, young troops put in that environment are viewed as a liability, in other cases (i.e. Navy, Air Force, Air National Guard) it may be quite different from their fields.
But, it's okay to send those same "young troops" overseas to fight and die for nothing? At least here, they would be protecting the citizens of this country, not losing their lives and limbs over another country's oil.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
But, it's okay to send those same "young troops" overseas to fight and die for nothing? At least here, they would be protecting the citizens of this country, not losing their lives and limbs over another country's oil.
No, you didn't understand me. One incident a few years back, a couple young National Guard troops said they had armed Mexican group come upon their position in the middle of the night. When it was investigated by daylight, there was nothing that collaborated their story (kind of like a "Deputy Louie Puroll", inventing for the sake of notoriety).

By a logical comparison, didn't you tell me I was a "volunteer" for my military service?...
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
No, you didn't understand me. One incident a few years back, a couple young National Guard troops said they had armed Mexican group come upon their position in the middle of the night. When it was investigated by daylight, there was nothing that collaborated their story (kind of like a "Deputy Louie Puroll", inventing for the sake of notoriety).

By a logical comparison, didn't you tell me I was a "volunteer" for my military service?...
I fail to see the difference between young troops being sent overseas or guarding our borders. And, your invented story scenario could happen as easily overseas.

Yes, they did volunteer. But, I am not the one trying to restrict their duty. It was YOU who wanted to excuse them from serving on our borders due to their inexperience. However, regardless of whether our troops are volunteers or drafted, I don't want anyone to die for absolutely nothing. For heaven's sake, we're talking about human beings, not robots. Furthermore, if they are ill-equipped to handle the job, they should not have made it past boot camp, let alone be deployed.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I fail to see the difference between young troops being sent overseas or guarding our borders. And, your invented story scenario could happen as easily overseas.

Yes, they did volunteer. But, I am not the one trying to restrict their duty. It was YOU who wanted to excuse them from serving on our borders due to their inexperience. However, regardless of whether our troops are volunteers or drafted, I don't want anyone to die for absolutely nothing. For heaven's sake, we're talking about human beings, not robots. Furthermore, if they are ill-equipped to handle the job, they should not have made it past boot camp, let alone be deployed.
You have a very unique perspective on military service. Alluding that all the action in Desert Storm was on land, and now that whatever job rating in the Reserves should know how to hold a position under fire from boot camp. I'm not restricting "their duty" by saying generically sending the Reserves of whatever service to be "Border Guards" is not a good idea.

An aside is that former Border Patrol agent Ignacio Ramos was a Navy Reservist. I thought that between him and former-agent Compean, he was more professional, and became trapped by the incident. By far the better shot (he fired once, and hit, whereas Compean went through two magazines and missed all shots, injuring himself by not using the weapon correctly), but all was lost to cover up the shooting as Compean wanted.

Despite all that, I think the Border Patrol are the best agency to watch the border...

EDIT: I'm not bagging on young servicemembers either, it was a guy that had just come through boot camp a few months before that saved my butt 25 years ago. My best soldiers were the youngsters that did what you told them without any questions. The great part of my service was meeting all those dedicated individuals that did their jobs, for whatever it was for.

Last edited by IBMMuseum; 08-02-2012 at 12:04 AM..
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
You have a very unique perspective on military service. Alluding that all the action in Desert Storm was on land, and now that whatever job rating in the Reserves should know how to hold a position under fire from boot camp. I'm not restricting "their duty" by saying generically sending the Reserves of whatever service to be "Border Guards" is not a good idea.

An aside is that former Border Patrol agent Ignacio Ramos was a Navy Reservist. I thought that between him and former-agent Compean, he was more professional, and became trapped by the incident. By far the better shot (he fired once, and hit, whereas Compean went through two magazines and missed all shots, injuring himself by not using the weapon correctly), but all was lost to cover up the shooting as Compean wanted.
I said no such thing. I don't know anyone who doesn't realize many of our cruise missiles are fired from ships and submarines; or that land targets are routinely attacked by our Navy and Air Force pilots. However, our combat units have traditionally been primarily Army and Marines. Again, I know quite a few guys who served in the Navy and Air Force, and with the exception of fighter pilots and Special Ops, most were not assigned to "land" combat units. In fact, many enlist in those branches to lessen their chance of being in harm's way. And, I don't blame them.

Furthermore, I have never served in the military, so it should be expected that my knowledge of military service is rather limited. However, if reservists are deemed "qualified" to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, they should likewise be qualified to protect our borders. Or, are you suggesting our border with Mexico is more dangerous than fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Despite all that, I think the Border Patrol are the best agency to watch the border...
Considering we now have untold millions living in our country illegally, their "watch" is in urgent need of assistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
EDIT: I'm not bagging on young servicemembers either, it was a guy that had just come through boot camp a few months before that saved my butt 25 years ago. My best soldiers were the youngsters that did what you told them without any questions. The great part of my service was meeting all those dedicated individuals that did their jobs, for whatever it was for.
Well, you have a funny way of not "bagging on" young troops. After all, you stated they are too inexperienced to guard our borders.

Last edited by Benicar; 08-02-2012 at 10:27 AM..
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