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Old 08-02-2012, 04:38 PM
 
32,528 posts, read 14,964,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Explain just how this "path to citizenship" is taking place...
I think it would be a safe guess that would be step 2 somewhere down the line but isn't it enough to object to many of them being given a stay of deportation along with work permits that will put them in direct competion for our scarce jobs? Isn't it enough that their parents will be rewarded for bringing their kids here illegally? Step 2 in that process will more than likely be legalizing their parents also because of the breakup of families scenario. I don't know about you but I can plainly see the handwriting on the wall if Obama gets re-elected. Even Gutierrez can see it and expresses it in the article.
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,920,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
DACA, as they're calling the new policy, isn't going to cover every illegal alien. It's going to cover those who met its requirements. Will there be fraud? Of course. I don't however believe every illegal alien, or even the greater portion of them, will try to apply for it. Similar programs already exist for different illegals. Many central Americans were eligible to apply for a similar procedure a while back. You didn't see every illegal apply for it though.

Anyone who believes a forty or fifty year old man will apply and get work authorization with a fake high school diploma through DACA is beyond delusional. Yes, again, there will be fraud. There are limits to it though.



I doubt it's ten million. There are a bit under forty million people in the state in total. If ten million was true that would mean a quarter of all people in California were illegal. I doubt that.



No that much was in context. The author seems to believe that this is a sign that we'll see a new amnesty passed. Whether he's right or you agree with him is another matter.
Do you actually believe they will not offer amnesty to the parents of those eligible for this so-called deferred action? After all, anything less would contradict their promise not to separate families. Only the most violent criminals will be removed. And, as usual, they will return.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,569 posts, read 15,933,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I didn't realize Obama's deferred action would involve 11 million. Or, is this yet more proof of backdoor amnesty for all illegals in this country? Perhaps that explains the need for Spanish ads. After all, dreamies "grew up" here, are Americans who just lack documents, know no other country, and don't speak Spanish. Heck, they can't even communicate with their Spanish-speaking parents.

Also, perhaps someone can explain how a 2-year immigration status is now somehow "irreversible."


Lawmaker: Deferred deportation will begin "irreversible process" | Fox News Latino
He's right. If Obama is re-elected there will be an amnesty no doubt about it. The GOP will work with him because they will feel without getting some movement on Latinos they will lose out going forward. So they'll suck it up and go with it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:15 PM
 
153 posts, read 109,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Do you actually believe they will not offer amnesty to the parents of those eligible for this so-called deferred action? After all, anything less would contradict their promise not to separate families. Only the most violent criminals will be removed. And, as usual, they will return.
That is what the author of the OP article suggests will occur. He believes that this will lead to a new amnesty in the future.

DACA does not however grant work authorization or deportation deferments to parents. Obama's Administration may very well issue a second decision that will grant the same to the parents. If he does I would be very happy. At the moment though it seems unlikely. A more likely move is for them to pass the Dream Act.

It's taken for granted that many on this forum would oppose either action. I'm simply saying that DACA does not cover parents, and that it's more likely for them to continue focusing on Dreamers for now versus the illegal alien population at large.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,920,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
That is what the author of the OP article suggests will occur. He believes that this will lead to a new amnesty in the future.

DACA does not however grant work authorization or deportation deferments to parents. Obama's Administration may very well issue a second decision that will grant the same to the parents. If he does I would be very happy. At the moment though it seems unlikely. A more likely move is for them to pass the Dream Act.

It's taken for granted that many on this forum would oppose either action. I'm simply saying that DACA does not cover parents, and that it's more likely for them to continue focusing on Dreamers for now versus the illegal alien population at large.
Technically, DACA does not include their parents. However, Napolitano has already stated the parents will not be targeted. In other words, they can stay. Plus, as I previously mentioned, Obama has promised he will not separate families. If the parents will be ignored by ICE, and their deportation would separate families, I think it's safe to assume all will remain.

I understand why you would be happy if the parents are granted amnesty. But, please explain why you believe they deserve a reprieve for willfully violating our laws. And, why should U.S. citizens endorse such a travesty? We were already burned in 1986. It would be absolute lunacy to do it again.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:29 AM
 
32,528 posts, read 14,964,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Technically, DACA does not include their parents. However, Napolitano has already stated the parents will not be targeted. In other words, they can stay. Plus, as I previously mentioned, Obama has promised he will not separate families. If the parents will be ignored by ICE, and their deportation would separate families, I think it's safe to assume all will remain.

I understand why you would be happy if the parents are granted amnesty. But, please explain why you believe they deserve a reprieve for willfully violating our laws. And, why should U.S. citizens endorse such a travesty? We were already burned in 1986. It would be absolute lunacy to do it again.
I would be curious also as to why any American would be happy not only about passing the Dream Act but also allowing the parents to stay whom as you stated willfully violated our immigration laws and most likely have been living a life of lies via stolen and fake documents which are felonies.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 70,558,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Technically, DACA does not include their parents. However, Napolitano has already stated the parents will not be targeted. In other words, they can stay. Plus, as I previously mentioned, Obama has promised he will not separate families. If the parents will be ignored by ICE, and their deportation would separate families, I think it's safe to assume all will remain.

I understand why you would be happy if the parents are granted amnesty. But, please explain why you believe they deserve a reprieve for willfully violating our laws. And, why should U.S. citizens endorse such a travesty? We were already burned in 1986. It would be absolute lunacy to do it again.
Back in '86 the government estimated 3 million illegals. Amnesty showed it was more like 12 million.
Now we've kept that "12 million" for near 30 years and 30 years ago the government estimates were off by a factor of 4.

Amnesty now would crash the welfare system. What if that 12 million turns out to be 40 million ?
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,920,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Back in '86 the government estimated 3 million illegals. Amnesty showed it was more like 12 million.
Now we've kept that "12 million" for near 30 years and 30 years ago the government estimates were off by a factor of 4.

Amnesty now would crash the welfare system. What if that 12 million turns out to be 40 million ?
No lie. These are estimates based on the mythical 12 million. Imagine the true costs.

Quote:
The Heritage Foundation issued two studies in 2007 pointing out that the big problem with mass legalization is that (a) most illegal aliens are low-skilled and therefore do not earn enough money to pay enough taxes to cover the government benefits they receive; and (b), amnesty would eventually make them eligible for the full array of welfare and medical benefits offered by local, state and federal governments. They found the cost of allowing illegal aliens to remain in the United States, and eventually to become citizens, would be $3.7 trillion through the year 2056. That works out to a present cost of $1 trillion, at a 5 percent discount rate. In other words, immediately upon passage of an amnesty bill, the United States government would need to put $1 trillion into an investment earning 5 percent per year if it were honest about paying for the costs of amnesty.
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/l...forcement.html
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,924,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...snipped...I understand why you would be happy if the parents are granted amnesty. But, please explain why you believe they deserve a reprieve for willfully violating our laws. And, why should U.S. citizens endorse such a travesty? We were already burned in 1986. It would be absolute lunacy to do it again.
My bold. I'm waiting.....
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:00 PM
 
153 posts, read 109,571 times
Reputation: 37
It's only been a few hours, be patient.

As I've said before, as a libertarian, I distinguish law and legislation. Immigration is an attempt to cartelize labour in the country in order to artificially raise nominal wages. It's a tariff, with many emotional sides to it, but ultimately a tariff. What was broken? A tariff? That isn't the sacred law. I do not believe my parents criminals. No more than I think tariff evaders during the Revolutionary War were criminals.

I think the real criminal is FDR who both began the New Deal and raised immigration tariffs to their current state.

This is surely not a satisfactory response, but as a libertarian there is simply no crime. For full disclosure, I believe most drug offenders are being held in jail illegaly and should be set free at once. I also think prostitution is no crime. Hell, I don't think polygamy is wrong and am ashamed that the federal government waged war against the Mormons over it.
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