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Old 08-02-2012, 01:21 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,467,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ByronicCoward View Post
You know, I may not be a total liberal, but these work permits are given to people who were brought here by their parents. They had little to no-say in the matter. I don't think that should count as "breaking" the law. They are in a very crappy position I'll admit, I mean I dunno what I'll do if I found out I'm essentially an non-entity in the US. Do I leave the country and go to a country where I have no connection, roots, or support network? Or do I stay and get crapped on? Glad I'm not them though.
I am a total liberal. But this is one issue that I totally agree with most conservatives. If your parents bring you here they can easily bring you back. There's nothing stopping citizens of Mexico from returning to Mexico where they belong. The notion that people are utterly unfamiliar with their parent's culture is preposterous. Foreign nationals should not be able to claim the right to American citizenship because their parents voluntarily violated our laws.

The American public should not be punished in the middle of a recession to cater to the selfish and irrational demands of the hispanic lobby.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:22 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,803,979 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
No, they didn't break the law but their parents did so why should their kids be rewarded for it? Many of these so-called kids aren't kids at all but adults. They have roots in their own countries. They were born there. Many if not most of them were taught their homeland's native language by their parents. Their parents certainly had no roots in this country but they apparently adapted to it when they moved here, didn't they?

It is Americans that are getting crapped on. That is one million jobs that could be held by Americans instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
No, there are not plenty of jobs out there. Americans couldn't get hired for those jobs if they wanted to because the greedy employers prefer the cheap, illegal labor. Many times unemployment pays more than those jobs. So why should they take those jobs for less even if they could get them especially if they have a family to feed?

They should not be here working here illegally nor legally. They should be deported. How do you know what those of us who are opposed to illegal immigation do outside of this forum to fight illegal immigration? I am very involved myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
The absolute truth!
The Absolute truth about both of these posters is....?
With the same logic set, we ought to punish the children of businessmen and politicians who have for 50yrs profited from illegal immigration. Confiscate their trust funds immediately.

With the same logic set, my cousin Ernie and my other brother Darell in cushy jobs they're under qualified for ought to have their incompetence promoted and protected the fullest extent of the law. The very thing Unions get accused of, only in the right to work standard practices supplanting the potential greatness of corporate America into Corporate feudalism/ communism. And the unions did that, y'all say?

When you can't win honestly on merits of logic, reason, or superior products of greater value... negative competition burning down anothers small biz is the only tool in the drawer for these characters. And they send legislators to do their bidding abusing their freedom at the expense of all others. They are the problem. The real beast Reagan should have been fighting, but instead, he got in bed with it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:31 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,803,979 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
I am a total liberal. But this is one issue that I totally agree with most conservatives. If your parents bring you here they can easily bring you back. There's nothing stopping citizens of Mexico from returning to Mexico where they belong. The notion that people are utterly unfamiliar with their parent's culture is preposterous. Foreign nationals should not be able to claim the right to American citizenship because their parents voluntarily violated our laws.

The American public should not be punished in the middle of a recession to cater to the selfish and irrational demands of the hispanic lobby.
I question your wearing of said liberal badge surely as I question false religious claiming Jesus and false conservatives asserting their agendas supplanting true conservative ideals. False representation is epidemic in discourse these days.
Who were the beneficiaries of illegal immigrant presence? Not the hispanic community. Not latinos. No one had a problem with illegal presence, not even after 911, until the day comes they want to step out of the subclass slave class underground economy they've been relegated to. So... you're liberal? The good kind or the selfish kind? The good kind or the one who prefers to profit from slavery so long as it's not in your yard where your conscience would gnaw at you?
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,761,195 times
Reputation: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
Americans don't want to. There are plenty of jobs out there. Sure some people will be underemployed but there are jobs to be done. Americans don't want to do them or come off of unemployment for them so documented, legal immigrants will do them.

First you complain about illegals taking American jobs, now you complain about them obtaining legal work permits. If all you do is talk on an anonymous forum then you really aren't doing anything to solve the "problem" are you?
The article refers to college grads and some who hold Master degrees. From what I hear, there are thousands of citizens who are college grads, who are in debt up to their eyeballs and have been looking for work and can't find it because of the lack of jobs available. Or are they just American citizens making excuses because they really don't want to work or are too lazy to work? But somehow there will be 1 million jobs available to illegals? How is that going to work? Will there be a demand to make American citizens redundant to make room for someone who "deserves" it more?

The number of people in their 20s and 30s returning to their parents home are at an all time high - because they lost their jobs. There are families that need to double up with family because they lost everything.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 16,212,801 times
Reputation: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
The Absolute truth about both of these posters is....?
With the same logic set, we ought to punish the children of businessmen and politicians who have for 50yrs profited from illegal immigration. Confiscate their trust funds immediately.

With the same logic set, my cousin Ernie and my other brother Darell in cushy jobs they're under qualified for ought to have their incompetence promoted and protected the fullest extent of the law. The very thing Unions get accused of, only in the right to work standard practices supplanting the potential greatness of corporate America into Corporate feudalism/ communism. And the unions did that, y'all say?

When you can't win honestly on merits of logic, reason, or superior products of greater value... negative competition burning down anothers small biz is the only tool in the drawer for these characters. And they send legislators to do their bidding abusing their freedom at the expense of all others. They are the problem. The real beast Reagan should have been fighting, but instead, he got in bed with it.
Perhaps you'd like to quote even ONE of my posts to support any of your accusations. Had you bothered to check prior to your baseless diatribe, you would realize I vehemently oppose the greedy, unscrupulous U.S. corporations who profit from cheap labor, both here and abroad. You would also realize my union stance bears absolutely no resemblance to your assumptions.

However, please explain how we would be "punishing" the children of illegal aliens by enforcing our immigration laws. Will they be incarcerated? No. Will they be harmed? No. At the most, they will be returned to their countries of origin alongside their parents. Most illegal aliens are from Mexico. The last time I checked, they now have a booming economy, and unlike ours, their middle-class is growing by leaps and bounds. They even have a substantially lower unemployment rate. If I'm not mistaken, lower than 5 percent. So, clearly, we would not be sending them to certain starvation or death.

While most were brought here by their parents, why should they be rewarded with work permits and a status change that according to Gutierrez is "irreversible?" By your logic, I suppose we should have special provisions for the children of our citizens who choose to flout our laws. After all, it's not their fault their parent chose to engage in criminal behavior. We can't afford to allow emotions to dictate our laws or their enforcement. Where does it end? When do we begin to take the laws of this country seriously? Or, should we have no laws, lest we might offend or discriminate against the lawless?
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,290,637 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
I am a total liberal. But this is one issue that I totally agree with most conservatives. If your parents bring you here they can easily bring you back. There's nothing stopping citizens of Mexico from returning to Mexico where they belong. The notion that people are utterly unfamiliar with their parent's culture is preposterous. Foreign nationals should not be able to claim the right to American citizenship because their parents voluntarily violated our laws.

The American public should not be punished in the middle of a recession to cater to the selfish and irrational demands of the hispanic lobby.
I'm in Texas. A huge number of kids in school tell us teachers where they are going for Spring Break, Christmas and summer vacation. Guess where ? You got it..they go to Mexico since all and yes all of them have family there.

I read about these "poor kids that grew up in the US and have no knowledge of Mexico" and laugh because that is so far removed from the truth.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:29 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,342,287 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Indeed, let me address those points.


.

Quote:
1. Fewer job openings-- the quality and nature of the jobs have been dumbing down for a considerable amount of time and it should be more obvious now when those who are on unemployment are not without job skills and education. It would be irrational to insist those low quality jobs raise their bars-- they don't need rocket scientists and that's the fact. It would be more pragmatic to focus on start up companies and small business expansion that require higher job skills. 60% of these individuals are finding it hard to acquire capital from the 1% hoarding it. What's the solution to that?
Point is we have lost many jobs since the economy declined in 08. Nothing has changed since then. We are on track with Japan. We have zombie banks, zero interest rates, fake codes such as QE1,2 & possibly 3. Nothing has created the robust growth we had prior to the millennium.


Quote:
2. Lack of real job growth-- mirrors the lack of consumer spending, which is an echo of lack of discretionary income due to preponderance of low quality jobs. How should American policy (and we individuals on main street) promote more high quality jobs?
Same as the explanation above I gave.
Fact is illegals are making it worse in a poor economy.

Quote:
3. Gov sector layoffs-- what services were they rendering that justified their jobs in the first place? Did those services magically become unnecessary because someone preferred protecting their pet military contractor? When the lions share of taxation is dedicated to wargames and ALL it's accessories, that merits far more scrutiny than how many DMV agents are serving DMV lines. Republican priorities neglect taking care of home base and go spendthrift on ostentatious BS abroad. Trillions come up missing again, and again, and again. We have national budgets assaulting schools and stealing milk money from kids to prove it.
Those jobs are gone & the white house plans to layoff more prior or after the election. I agree we need less gov in our lives.



Quote:
4. Chinese stole our jobs-- China is taking care of #1 (her people, her economy). So too are American businesses taking care of #1. American business are demanding US goverment take care of #1 (them) at the expense of their real job, taking care of #1 (US, and the USA). China has had it's economy kick started by cashing out the real value of America, plus cashing out the value of a large customer base. American businesses have been killing American customers all along and they need to wake up and find humility or they will be the ones directly responsible for killing this country. Not China, or chinese workers abroad.
I find it more than a little curious, not just the disparity of yen vs dollar, the disparity of environmental standards vs the absence of them, but also the disparity of having too liberal deregulation standards (USA) printing license to prey vs regulatory standards that FORBID corporations from menacing the state. We could stand to level that playing field out. Haughty commercial forces playing one side off another are needful of the fear of God and Country from both sides. Because if governance (all sovereigns across the globe) doesn't take that seriously, expect Bastille day wherever that injustice is permitted to stand unchallenged. You need only bear honest witness the middle east and European riots. Libertarians being handed the bill for their folly should solve it. Sometimes when you 'win', you're actually losing, and they can't see that when they've got a vested interest in tearing others down to 'win'.
The Chinese did steal our jobs as they hollowed out our Manufacturing sector. We use to manufacture our own goods & services. With china keeping its currency artificially low we are in a situation where China has exported our entire manufacturing economy. Now our service sector jobs are being hollowed out to India & Bangladesh.

So again what jobs? We can't give illegals work permits.

Quote:
5. High taxes-- By whose standard? Are we to aspire for a race to the bottom Banana republic standard? What those taxes pay for should be an over arching question for every citizen, and particularly, a narrowing of the checkbook for congress and senate. I'm fiscal conservative and am very annoyed at these lobbyist groups claiming themselves to be anti tax advocates, defending middle class. They're doing the opposite. They're mouth pieces for the 1% servicing policies for too big to fail at the expense of all others. Even Ron Paul extreme- all he's doing is negating the job requirements of his office.
Taxes by and large provide for the infrastructure of business to begin with. Those whining about taxes the most have been the largest beneficiaries of said taxes. They're the equivalent of dead beat dads. Put an end to corporate personhood, this Harvey the Rabbit existence they're living out, and the Emperor with no Clothes will be seen for exactly what he is
Taxes discourage startups. They also hinder hiring.
All these reasons are not to give illegals work permits with slow or decelerating job growth.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,150,096 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Wait..only citizens are supposed to get SS numbers..everyone else gets an IITN. Did they change the rules here ?
All Legal Permanent Residents, and non-immigrants (including TPS) filing an I-765 (for work authorization) can get Social Security numbers too (if someone qualifies to get a Social Security number, they cannot get an ITIN)...

It's going to be the same qualifications here, they have to file an I-765...
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,150,096 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
...Foreign nationals should not be able to claim the right to American citizenship because their parents voluntarily violated our laws...
They can't...

It doesn't even provide the status of legal residency...
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:06 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,467,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
They can't...

It doesn't even provide the status of legal residency...
You and both know this is the intent. Obama is pandering shamelessly to the hispanic lobby in the middle of a huge recession when many of our own citizens cannot find jobs. It's disgusting that he feels the need to do this. It's even more disgusting that the stunningly selfish hispanic lobby demands this of American pols. They should make demands on their societies not ours.

He's certainly not doing this to provide for the needs of the American public. The last thing we need here are yet more unskilled Latino nationals laboring under the offensive delusion that multiple American laws are theirs to ignore at whim.
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