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Old 08-06-2012, 08:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
The immigrant (legal or illegal) doesn't get automatic anything. The foreigner must file for an Adjustment of Status, usually to an conditional immigrant visa. This can be denied just as easily as it can be approved. I like how you changed it from illegals to foreigners and then used except under very rare circumstances. CYOA Whats rare is for an illegal to be granted the conditional visa for marrying a citizen.
I didn't change anything. These "illegals" are gay foreigners married (or in some cases civilly unioned) to Americans, who, if they were straight, would not be "illegal" or facing deportation. And of course they have to fill out some forms (and be interviewed and take a medical exam).

The fact of the matter is these gay people would be here legally - they would be entitled to spousal green cards - if not for DOMA, a law that has now been struck down as unconstitutional by some 6 or 7 courts. I think it makes sense not to deport them until the final appeal of these cases is heard.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:52 PM
 
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
I didn't change anything. And of course they have to fill out some forms (and be interviewed and take a medical exam).

The fact of the matter is these gay people would be here legally - they would be entitled to spousal green cards - if not for DOMA, a law that has now been struck down as unconstitutional by some 6 or 7 courts. I think it makes sense not to deport them until the final appeal of these cases is heard.
If they are here illegally to begin with, it is very hard to obtain legal status, married to a citizen or not. You are mixing apples with oranges here. Your argument works for the most part on legal immigrants and non-immigrant visa holders, but it is a very rare instance, gay or not, for an illegal to marry a citizen and obtain legality. You, at first stated that they obtain legality automatically, illegals do not. DOMA would only allow sponsorship for foreigners to enter the USA on immigrant visas, it will not change for illegal immigrants as they, depending on the length of time they are here illegally will be barred from entry from 3 years to life.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
If they are here illegally to begin with, it is very hard to obtain legal status, married to a citizen or not. You are mixing apples with oranges here. Your argument works for the most part on legal immigrants and non-immigrant visa holders, but it is a very rare instance, gay or not, for an illegal to marry a citizen and obtain legality. You, at first stated that they obtain legality automatically, illegals do not. DOMA would only allow sponsorship for foreigners to enter the USA on immigrant visas, it will not change for illegal immigrants as they, depending on the length of time they are here illegally will be barred from entry from 3 years to life.
The point is they never should have been considered here illegally to begin with. The only reason for that is because of an unconstitutionally discriminatory law.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:18 PM
 
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
The point is they never should have been considered here illegally to begin with. The only reason for that is because of an unconstitutionally discriminatory law.
Most illegals enter without inspection, there is no unconstitutional law for that. Visa overstays, may be here illegally if they failed to exit on or prior to their exit date. The one difference is that a visa overstay can adjust status, they can also be denied based on the time of illegality and rendered unable to enter the US for again 3 years to life. DOMA may improve the chance for some legal immigrants to adjust status and obtain conditional visas, but it won't change the status for those that are EWI's accept in very rare instances.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:01 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,720,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Most illegals enter without inspection, there is no unconstitutional law for that. Visa overstays, may be here illegally if they failed to exit on or prior to their exit date. The one difference is that a visa overstay can adjust status, they can also be denied based on the time of illegality and rendered unable to enter the US for again 3 years to life. DOMA may improve the chance for some legal immigrants to adjust status and obtain conditional visas, but it won't change the status for those that are EWI's accept in very rare instances.
I really don't understand this post. Are we talking about the same thing? Here's the type of story, and the type of immigrant, I'm talking about (and this thread is about):

Gay couple's immigration plight: Ailing New Yorker may be torn from spouse over visa - New York Daily News

"A gay Long Island couple...married in South Africa in 1999, a union that is recognized by New York State and Suffolk County...who have played by the immigration rules for more than a decade are stuck in a Catch-22 that could tear them apart just when they need each other most."

"New Yorker Edwin Blesch, 70 and his South African husband, Tim Smulian, 65, have been spending six months on Long Island and six months abroad to comply with Smulian's tourist visa. But Blesch, who has HIV, suffered several mini-strokes and other complications and is now unable to travel safely. Smulian is his primary caregiver - but has no way to stay here permanently."





Smulian has now overstayed his visa and faces deportation despite being married to an American. Well, he kinda maybe faces deportation - it's in limbo if these types of deportations will be pursued, hence the Congressional pressure for a formal statement saying they won't be in light of legal developments surrounding DOMA. The fact remains that if Sumlian were straight and married to an American - or if DOMA did not exist - he would have gotten his immediate relative green card back in 2001 (instead they had to play leap-frog over the Atlantic every six months for 13 years) and he wouldn't be in this predicament.

Last edited by hammertime33; 08-06-2012 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:19 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
I really don't understand this post. Are we talking about the same thing? Here's the type of story, and the type of immigrant, I'm talking about (and this thread is about):

Gay couple's immigration plight: Ailing New Yorker may be torn from spouse over visa - New York Daily News

"A gay Long Island couple...married in South Africa in 1999, a union that is recognized by New York State and Suffolk County...who have played by the immigration rules for more than a decade are stuck in a Catch-22 that could tear them apart just when they need each other most."

"New Yorker Edwin Blesch, 70 and his South African husband, Tim Smulian, 65, have been spending six months on Long Island and six months abroad to comply with Smulian's tourist visa. But Blesch, who has HIV, suffered several mini-strokes and other complications and is now unable to travel safely. Smulian is his primary caregiver - but has no way to stay here permanently."





Smulian has now overstayed his visa and, until this decision, was facing deportation despite being married to an American. If Sumlian was straight and married to an American - or if DOMA did not exist - he would have gotten his immediate relative green card back in 2001 (instead they had to play leap-frog over the Atlantic every six months for 13 years) and he wouldn't be in this predicament.
Smulian would have had to apply for an immigrant visa to enter the US for more than the 6 month tourist visa (VPW). Or, while here apply for AoS to an immigrant visa, which is what they are attempting to do, he has never been here illegally nor has he overstayed his visa (something they were very adamant about). There is no guarantee that DOMA is stopping the visa process, it could very well be his age, it is but one avenue they are attempting to use. He/they must explain and prove there case based on criteria as set forth. What they may have working against them is previous attempts at gaining legality for Smulian and having been denied based on other criteria.

Here's the kicker:
Same-Sex Couple Wins Immigration Relief, Despite Defense Of Marriage Act

Quote:
at least two same-sex married couples have been granted a reprieve, at least temporarily, from policies that could separate them based on immigration status. Tim Smulian, a 65-year-old South African citizen, found out on Wednesday that he will be allowed to stay in the United States for at least one year under "deferred action" on his immigration documents. Smulian is married legally to Edwin Blesch, a 71-year-old U.S. citizen
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1266829.html

You seem to be linking to these 2 men, not the OP. Smulian has a 1 year deferred action, he can apply for another year within the ending of the 1 year, and on and on.

My original point was simply pointing out that you claimed that once a US Citizen marries a foreigner, that foreigner automatically becomes legal. It doesn't work that way. I married a foreigner, she had to apply for legality to enter the US and then AoS, for which we went through numerous interviews, no different then this situation. What helped my wife obtain her LPR/GC status was her degrees from college, which helped to prove she would not become a charge to the public if something were to happen to me.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-06-2012 at 10:35 PM..
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:05 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,720,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Smulian would have had to apply for an immigrant visa to enter the US for more than the 6 month tourist visa (VPW). Or, while here apply for AoS to an immigrant visa, which is what they are attempting to do. There is no guarantee that DOMA is stopping the visa process, it could very well be his age, it is but one avenue they are attempting to use. He/they must explain and prove there case based on criteria as set forth. What they may have working against them is previous attempts at gaining legality for Smulian and having been denied based on other criteria.
DOMA 100% is stopping (never allowed for really) his visa process. If not for DOMA, he would have applied for and been granted (in all likelihood) a permanent immediate relative green card (spousal immigration visa application) 11 years ago. And if DOMA were to go away (which it will be very, very soon in light of recent legal developments), he would be entitled to one as soon as it did.

Quote:
As for this post and this story, it is in the illegal immigration forum, probably should be in the immigration forum.
This started as an anti-gay thread (the OP has a long history of such threads) in the general Politics and Other Controversy forum. Some moderator moved it here and I followed it. The article on which this thread is based is about congressmen asking for an official statement from the administration stating that people who, if not for DOMA would be entitled to legal immigration status as spouses of US citizens, not be deported in light of a spate of recent court rulings finding DOMA unconstitutional.

Quote:
My original point was simply pointing out that you claimed that once a US Citizen marries a foreigner, that foreigner automatically becomes legal. It doesn't work that way. I married a foreigner, she had to apply for legality to enter the US and then AoS, for which we went through numerous interviews, no different then this situation. What helped my wife obtain her LPR/GC status was her degrees from college, which helped to prove she would not become a charge to the public if something were to happen to me.
I know there is an application process including an interview. Isn't there an initial 2 year conditional visa, then after 2 years you reapply for a permanent one? (one of my best friends here in NYC is a Brazilian national married to a US citizen going on 2 years who is in the process of applying for her permanent green card - and she initially applied for her conditional while already in the US - that can be done under certain circumstances). I understand that it's not "automatic" - we're not going to let in some heinous criminal or somebody who's been deported twice previously - but for legitimate foreign spouses (unless they're gay) of American citizens who don't have any issues with the US, it's pretty much automatic.

Last edited by hammertime33; 08-06-2012 at 11:27 PM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Smulian would have had to apply for an immigrant visa to enter the US for more than the 6 month tourist visa (VPW). Or, while here apply for AoS to an immigrant visa, which is what they are attempting to do, he has never been here illegally nor has he overstayed his visa (something they were very adamant about). There is no guarantee that DOMA is stopping the visa process, it could very well be his age, it is but one avenue they are attempting to use. He/they must explain and prove there case based on criteria as set forth. What they may have working against them is previous attempts at gaining legality for Smulian and having been denied based on other criteria...
You are dancing around that that the marriage is not recognized Federally - to whit, Smulian would not be able to have a tourist visa (or qualify for the equivalent VWP) if married to a female U.S. citizen - Marriage to a U.S. citizen is "immigrant intent". There is nothing about age to immigration, DOMA is negating their marriage.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:52 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
DOMA 100% is stopping (never allowed for really) his visa process. If not for DOMA, he would have applied for and been granted (in all likelihood) a permanent immediate relative green card (spousal immigration visa application) 11 years ago. And if DOMA were to go away (which it will be very, very soon in light of recent legal developments), he would be entitled to one as soon as it did.

This started as an anti-gay thread (the OP has a long history of such threads) in the general Politics and Other Controversy forum. Some moderator moved it here and I followed it. The article on which this thread is based is about congressmen asking for an official statement from the administration stating that people who, if not for DOMA would be entitled to legal immigration status as spouses of US citizens, not be deported in light of a spate of recent court rulings finding DOMA unconstitutional.

I know there is an application process including an interview. Isn't there an initial 2 year conditional visa, then after 2 years you reapply for a permanent one? (one of my best friends here in NYC is a Brazilian national married to a US citizen going on 2 years who is in the process of applying for her permanent green card - and she initially applied for her conditional while already in the US - that can be done under certain circumstances). I understand that it's not "automatic" - we're not going to let in some heinous criminal or somebody who's been deported twice previously - but for legitimate foreign spouses (unless they're gay) of American citizens who don't have any issues with the US, it's pretty much automatic.
No immigrant is entitled to anything.

It should have been moved to the legal immigration forum, not the illegal immigration forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuesum View Post
You are dancing around that that the marriage is not recognized Federally - to whit, Smulian would not be able to have a tourist visa (or qualify for the equivalent VWP) if married to a female U.S. citizen - Marriage to a U.S. citizen is "immigrant intent". There is nothing about age to immigration, DOMA is negating their marriage.
No, simply explaining the process. Immigrant intent requires a visa. 11 years of back and forth, yet never applied for any type of visa? So sure that DOMA is what is blocking his legality? I see it as the DOMA movement using them as there spokespersons. All I am saying is there is no guarantee or entitlement to a permanent visa for anybody, married or not.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:25 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,143,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Except under very rare circumstances, yes, if an American marries a foreigner, the foreigner automatically gets a 2 year conditional spousal green card, which can be reapplied for after 2 years and becomes permanent.
It's not automatic; it's a lengthy and expensive process. I know from personal experience. And while the odds are excellent that your spouse will eventually be issued a visa, it is by no means automatic or guaranteed. There are many Americans living in countries they never wanted to live in because their spouses were rejected for a green card.
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