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Old 08-07-2012, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
Are you advancing the theory all illegals are thieves?
Not all, but most. And, if they aren't thieves, they're still crooks. You said they're working. How are they working without either using a stolen or fake SSN, or working under the table? Stolen = theft. Fake = fraud. Off-the-books = tax evasion. Of course, most of the minors are innocent.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:25 PM
 
153 posts, read 108,563 times
Reputation: 37
I see no real crime in fake numbers or working off the books. Employers knowingly hire illegal aliens, and only go through the motions of checking numbers for the sake of maintaining appearance. It's a beneficial transaction between employer and employee. The real crime is the government's intervention in the private interactions of people. Likewise it's optimal for labour regulations to be avoided and people to work under the table. Both sides have elected to enter into a voluntary relationship and do no wrong by asserting it against the will of the state. From a purely economic view, working under the table also allows workers and employers to avoid the damaging effects of the minimum wage law. If they were to follow the minimum wage law several efficient jobs would be non-existent.

Anyway, it doesn't matter who is sending money abroad. It doesn't matter if its a legal or illegal whose sending money to be invested in Korea, Mexico, or Ireland. What matters is that investment abroad is not bad. It is good. It increases capital abroad, it increases the wages people abroad command, it increases the demand of these people abroad for services and goods in the USA, and it brings profit to investors in the USA.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:33 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,550,867 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
I see no real crime in fake numbers or working off the books. Employers knowingly hire illegal aliens, and only go through the motions of checking numbers for the sake of maintaining appearance. It's a beneficial transaction between employer and employee. The real crime is the government's intervention in the private interactions of people. Likewise it's optimal for labour regulations to be avoided and people to work under the table. Both sides have elected to enter into a voluntary relationship and do no wrong by asserting it against the will of the state. From a purely economic view, working under the table also allows workers and employers to avoid the damaging effects of the minimum wage law. If they were to follow the minimum wage law several efficient jobs would be non-existent.

Anyway, it doesn't matter who is sending money abroad. It doesn't matter if its a legal or illegal whose sending money to be invested in Korea, Mexico, or Ireland. What matters is that investment abroad is not bad. It is good. It increases capital abroad, it increases the wages people abroad command, it increases the demand of these people abroad for services and goods in the USA, and it brings profit to investors in the USA.
No crime in fake numbers - as in using fake SS numbers? Employers hire illegals under the table because they are cheap labor, don't have to pay minimum wage, don't have to provide benefits and avoid taxes. Those employers are as guilty of committing several crimes themselves and should be punished as well. Working under the table below the minimum has drives down wages and the lose of jobs of American citizens, or don't you know that? or is it you just don't care because an illegal benefits at the expense of someone else losing a job to an illegal? The US government has protected a creation of its own - a population of illegals who are the most selfish people in the US (give me, give me, give me), have total disregard for our laws and have an entitlement mentality.

Clearly you pick and choose when and what government should and should not do, including what laws should apply and which should be disregarded when it benefits illegals, as has clearly been demonstrated by illegals who carry a banner that says "I'm Proud to be an Illegal".
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:13 AM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,772,010 times
Reputation: 4446
Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner View Post
I thought it was against the law to send money that has not been taxed out of the country.. where is our law enforcement?
eric holder is the top cop.

what's that tell you?

i hope everybody looks at those numbers and thinks about 11.85 billion LEAVING the country in just 2 quarters. we are being literally looted by the mexican government, and you can bet that they are fine with that.

how would an extra 11.85 billion look spread around in this country in 2 quarters?

our leaders are useless traitors to our country, and we aren't going to see any crime prosecuted-wall street or main street.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:01 AM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,772,010 times
Reputation: 4446
in the meantime, these numbers were just posted:

From a deck that is helping to stack a record number of PhD recipients on food stamps and other forms of welfare (since 2007 PhD’s receiving entitlements has tripled and Masters have exploded from 33,655 to 294,029 and 3 in 10 kids live in their parents basement after graduating and facing 46% unemployment rates) while racking up debt levels that will rival the housing bubble.

so american citizens now live in the basement, while obama and his administration try to find more ways to keep illegal immigrants in this country in a sad effort to get some votes. another thing i know is that ANY citizen is not going to be happy with the prospect of more entitlement seekers entering the country, and any entitlement seeker is not going to be happy with the prospect of "competing" against those new entitlement seekers for benefits so the media is lying anyway.

the moral hazard of doing this is beyond insane, and i saw a good piece on how almost any person off the street would be better than the policy makers we have now:

http://www.psychopathiceconomics.com...04/moronomics/

moronomics is a good word for it. remember that larry summers is the same guy that lost $1,800,000,000.00 (yup, that is $1.8 billion) betting on derivatives for Harvard’s endowment, and we are supposed to listen to him?
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:23 AM
 
640 posts, read 592,226 times
Reputation: 587
Let's understand this...and as a preface to this comment let me say that I'm probably a more vocal advocate against illegal immigration than anyone on this forum.

These numbers mean nothing, are non-verifiable, and are at best being used to obfuscate the problem.

Problems aren't solved with mindlessly stupid rhetoric.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
I see no real crime in fake numbers or working off the books. Employers knowingly hire illegal aliens, and only go through the motions of checking numbers for the sake of maintaining appearance. It's a beneficial transaction between employer and employee. The real crime is the government's intervention in the private interactions of people. Likewise it's optimal for labour regulations to be avoided and people to work under the table. Both sides have elected to enter into a voluntary relationship and do no wrong by asserting it against the will of the state. From a purely economic view, working under the table also allows workers and employers to avoid the damaging effects of the minimum wage law. If they were to follow the minimum wage law several efficient jobs would be non-existent.

Anyway, it doesn't matter who is sending money abroad. It doesn't matter if its a legal or illegal whose sending money to be invested in Korea, Mexico, or Ireland. What matters is that investment abroad is not bad. It is good. It increases capital abroad, it increases the wages people abroad command, it increases the demand of these people abroad for services and goods in the USA, and it brings profit to investors in the USA.
In case you don't know, many of those "fake" numbers actually belong to real people. Of course, having their credit ruined and lives destroyed is no concern of yours. As for working off-the-books, aren't you the one always blasting those who receive benefits without paying into the system?
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Allen 242 View Post
Let's understand this...and as a preface to this comment let me say that I'm probably a more vocal advocate against illegal immigration than anyone on this forum.

These numbers mean nothing, are non-verifiable, and are at best being used to obfuscate the problem.

Problems aren't solved with mindlessly stupid rhetoric
.
How is stating a fact "mindlessly stupid rhetoric?" It is common knowledge, and easily verified, that remittances from the U.S. account for the #2 source of revenue for Mexico, second only to oil. It is what it is. Why do you think Mexico is so desperate to keep their people here?
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,881,813 times
Reputation: 27519
Oil is Mexico's biggest revenue maker.
Remittance money from the US is Mexico's second largest revenue stream.

I'm sure the Mexican government does not want its second largest source of revenue to dry up.
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:02 AM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,772,010 times
Reputation: 4446
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
eric holder is the top cop.

what's that tell you?

i hope everybody looks at those numbers and thinks about 11.85 billion LEAVING the country in just 2 quarters. we are being literally looted by the mexican government, and you can bet that they are fine with that.

how would an extra 11.85 billion look spread around in this country in 2 quarters?

our leaders are useless traitors to our country, and we aren't going to see any crime prosecuted-wall street or main street.
as an add on to this post, i see that the DOJ has decided NOT to prosecute goldman sachs for any crimes, and i am still waiting to see MF global and corzine face some charges-but it looks like a long lonely wait.

Justice Department won't prosecute Goldman Sachs for financial crisis | Fox News

you cannot allow laws to be randomly broken, whether it is by little criminals or big criminals. we are now witnessing what happens when the laws of a society break down because they are ignored.

Last edited by floridasandy; 08-10-2012 at 04:14 AM..
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