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Old 08-05-2012, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,893,919 times
Reputation: 27519

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
That's exactly the plan. They want agents to fear arresting illegals. Knowing they could actually lose their job, and especially their pension, I doubt many will take such a risk. Obama has essentially dismantled ICE. They should just assign all ICE agents to desk jobs.
Well that and then telling them to shoot bean bags first in defense. Just close up shop along the southern border and send them north where they can at least feel like they are working.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,550,867 times
Reputation: 2360
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
Again, if there is any benefit to being illegal it's that I know what occurs in the community and what doesn't. I can assure you it is uncommon to use a fake driver's license. With the exception of those who are trying to get into bars and clubs when underage, but that much is something shared with other communities as well.
So you are saying that they forging licenses and/orobtain driving licenses using forged documents. Then you top that off with them being underaged going into bars and clubs.

You say that they self-deport and take their money back to start up a business, then you say they have no money, but they have money to go to bars and clubs.


Quote:
Which ones? My first question in this thread was, and continues to be, what were his violations exactly? I would like to know the details before forming a solid opinion on this matter. All we know is that he didn't drive with a license, but that's a given.
And like I said - if you want to know so bad, go find out. Contact the report and ask him to go to the police station and get a copy of the guy's record and send it to you.

Quote:
This isn't exclusive to the illegal community. It is a standard to apply to all legislation. Take for example Obamacare. Is it optimal from an economic stand point? No. Is it just? No. Throw it out then!
What does that have to do with anything? Don't worry, he left a loophole for illegals to get on the train.

Quote:
Or if you prefer, the War on Drugs or the TSA.
Geez, would we be having a War on Drugs if the Mexican illegals weren't flooding our country with them? TSA? Pfffff.

Quote:
I'm saying only a few visa overstayers have the documentation needed to get a driving license.
Visa overstayers? Is that the new term used for illegals who entered legally and didn't leave and fall under the illegal category?

There are limits even for outlaws. If you are caught being here illegally you will be deported. If you are caught being illegal and being part of the drug trade you will suffer greater penalties, and so forth. Most illegals will restrain themselves from violating legislation as much as possible to avoid further penalties.

Highlighted text: That is a law that should be applied to every illegal, not just outlaws.

Suffer great penalties? They go to prison!!! They get three meals and a cot, housed and clothed at the expense of the taxpayer. Is there more that the system should be doing for them? Are they tortured, deprived of food, beaten? What exactly penalties do they suffer from?
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
Again, if there is any benefit to being illegal it's that I know what occurs in the community and what doesn't. I can assure you it is uncommon to use a fake driver's license. With the exception of those who are trying to get into bars and clubs when underage, but that much is something shared with other communities as well.
For heaven's sake, why do you keep saying that? You made that same claim in another thread, and I proved you wrong. You didn't realize illegals return to Mexico for holidays. Nor do you know the truth about illegal aliens and driver's licenses. Clearly, your knowledge of the illegal alien community is limited. Why not at least first do a little research.

Quote:
Federal agents have now shut down an operation that targeted immigrants along South Broadway in Fells Point for over two years flooding the streets with fake ids of every kind, including green cards, Social Security cards and drivers licenses.

"The scope of this enterprise was just remarkable,” said U.S. Attorney Rod Rosenstein, “There were thousands of fraudulent identification cards that were created by this group of nine individuals. They generated up to $1.7 million in profits, and they did that by charging each individual about $160 each."

Immigrants seeking the high quality fakes could order them in the morning and pick them up that same afternoon.
Illegal immigrants got fake green cards, Social Security cards and drivers licenses

Quote:
A 29-year-old Winter Garden man Wednesday was sentenced to 14 months in federal prison for his role in a scheme to get illegal immigrants Florida driver licenses.

The Latchmans would arrange for illegal immigrants to obtain Florida driver licenses for a per-person fee ranging from $2,500 to $3,000, officials said. Shirley assisted in his role as an examiner at the Clermont office of the Florida Department of Driver Licenses, officials said.
Illegal immigrants fake drivers license: Winter Garden man in fake ID scheme gets 14 months in prison - Orlando Sentinel

Quote:
Dae Wahn Ahn, 49, from Diamond Bar and 47-year-old Chong Hwan Kim from Norwalk were arrested Wednesday in Los Angeles.

They are accused of using altered Canadian passports and legitimate Social Security numbers to obtain valid California driver’s licenses for illegal aliens from Asia who traveled to Kern County.
Korean Illegal Immigrants Convicted for Selling Fake Driver’s Licenses To Other Illegal Immigrants | ROK Drop


Illegal Aliens Flock to New Mexico to get Fake Drivers Licenses. This MUST be stopped. - YouTube

Quote:
Federal authorities are searching for members of a multi-state organization accused of selling New Mexico driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

Thirty people from multiple states are named in three separate indictments unsealed Wednesday. Four people in New Mexico have already been arrested.
Arrests Made Nationwide In New Mexico ID Fraud Case | Fronteras Desk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
Which ones? My first question in this thread was, and continues to be, what were his violations exactly? I would like to know the details before forming a solid opinion on this matter. All we know is that he didn't drive with a license, but that's a given.
The article clearly stated he had offenses unrelated to traffic violations. What more do you want?
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:24 AM
 
153 posts, read 108,563 times
Reputation: 37
[quote=softblueyz;25494832]
Quote:

So you are saying that they forging licenses and/orobtain driving licenses using forged documents. Then you top that off with them being underaged going into bars and clubs.
I'm saying that teenage illegals, just like teenage citizens or legal migrants, use fake IDs to get beer. I don't approve of it, but I know it happens.

Quote:
You say that they self-deport and take their money back to start up a business, then you say they have no money, but they have money to go to bars and clubs.
Several teenage illegals go to bars and clubs using fake IDs, yes. They are separate from those adults who entered illegally and live frugally so that they can save up what they can and go back home. The illegal alien community is just that, a community of different individuals. There is no contradiction in pointing out that different groups or individuals within the community act differently or have different interests.

Quote:
And like I said - if you want to know so bad, go find out. Contact the report and ask him to go to the police station and get a copy of the guy's record and send it to you.
Why was this thread made if the basic details weren't known? We don't know what his violations were, but several here are already assuming he must have had DUI offenses or running people over. I apologize if it bugs you that I ask that we wait to know what his offenses are before tackling these things on the man. Yes, he's illegal. Is he a murderer or would-be murderer though? Or is he simply awful at parking?

Quote:
Visa overstayers? Is that the new term used for illegals who entered legally and didn't leave and fall under the illegal category?
How is this a new term? It's in common use. There are two major groups of illegal aliens. You have those who entered without going through any checks, Entries Without Inspection (EWI), and you have those who entered on a visa and stayed after it expired (visa overstayers).

Quote:
Suffer great penalties? They go to prison!!! They get three meals and a cot, housed and clothed at the expense of the taxpayer. Is there more that the system should be doing for them? Are they tortured, deprived of food, beaten? What exactly penalties do they suffer from?
Are you suggesting jail is no punishment?
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post

I'm saying that teenage illegals, just like teenage citizens or legal migrants, use fake IDs to get beer. I don't approve of it, but I know it happens.



Several teenage illegals go to bars and clubs using fake IDs, yes. They are separate from those adults who entered illegally and live frugally so that they can save up what they can and go back home. The illegal alien community is just that, a community of different individuals. There is no contradiction in pointing out that different groups or individuals within the community act differently or have different interests.
Please see my previous post. Those aren't innocent teens trying to buy beer or enter clubs. I am beginning to believe your involvement in the "illegal alien community" is about as much as mine, which is none.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:41 AM
 
153 posts, read 108,563 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
For heaven's sake, why do you keep saying that? You made that same claim in another thread, and I proved you wrong. You didn't realize illegals return to Mexico for holidays. Nor do you know the truth about illegal aliens and driver's licenses. Clearly, your knowledge of the illegal alien community is limited. Why not at least first do a little research.
You mean this?

I have to say I'm amazed you or Malamute insist that it's anything common for illegals to return home for the holidays. I've actually lived and interacted with illegals for a good portion of my life. I have heard their stories and I can assure you it's not common in any sense to return home for Christmas. Many newcomers feel a strong homesickness and end up leaving soon because they can't stand it - they don't come back. There are those who have nieces, nephews, grandchildren, or even children they have never met back home. They would love to return home to see them, but the cost of trying to do so is too high to warrant trying to cross over multiple times either way.

All you've shown is that there are exceptions. The majority of the illegal alien community does not however do it. You might have gotten away with portraying the illegal alien community in a given way in the past, but I can say that you've been wrong thus far in many points - this included. Or is there another illegal alien in this forum who can testify that the community at large goes on vacation abroad? No?

I don't get it. You frequently state things in the 'we' and seem to believe your opinion is what the majority of citizens believe. Yet when I try to represent the illegal alien community in saying that something is not as common as the media would like you to believe, surely I must be the outlier.

Quote:
The article clearly stated he had offenses unrelated to traffic violations. What more do you want?
Which offenses? Again, if it was a major offense I'd think the article would point it out. The only named violation is his lack of a driving license. Okay, he's illegal. What else though? If he frequently drinks while driving, okay let's be angry about that. Let's actually wait to confirm that before attacking him on that issue though. For now all we know for sure is he's illegal and has no license.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,550,867 times
Reputation: 2360
[quote=Frank_Knight;25495032]
How is this a new term? It's in common use. There are two major groups of illegal aliens. You have those who entered without going through any checks, Entries Without Inspection (EWI), and you have those who entered on a visa and stayed after it expired (visa overstayers).

It's just another way of saying someone is illegal. Actually, I'm being politically incorrect.
It's just another way of saying someone is an undocumented American.


Quote:
Are you suggesting jail is no punishment?
Do the crime, do the time. Jail is punishment, I want to know what they suffer from? Should we make it comfortable for criminals and house them in something that resembles a hotel??

I would be interested to know what kind of jail service Mexico provides to ease the suffering of their home grown criminals.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:48 AM
 
153 posts, read 108,563 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Please see my previous post. Those aren't innocent teens trying to buy beer or enter clubs. I am beginning to believe your involvement in the "illegal alien community" is about as much as mine, which is none.
Or maybe the illegal alien community doesn't match your belief of what it is. Maybe the media exaggerate the virtues and vices of illegal aliens according to its political bias. Maybe Pro-illegal media exaggerate how hard working and great illegal aliens. Maybe anti-illegal media exaggerate how awful, lazy, and murderous the illegal aliens are.

Perhaps, just perhaps, illegal aliens are somewhere in between. Perhaps they are just like everyone else. Perhaps they have their criminals just as much as they have hardworking entrepreneurs. Perhaps they're little different from others except for what documents they have. That's a scary thought isn't it though?
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:53 AM
 
153 posts, read 108,563 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
It's just another way of saying someone is illegal. Actually, I'm being politically incorrect.
It's just another way of saying someone is an undocumented American.
I've made it clear I don't care for being politically correct, and that even if I was I would disprove of most major terms used to refer to illegals.

Visa overstayers and EWI is simply a method to explain how an illegal alien entered the country.

Quote:
Do the crime, do the time. Jail is punishment, I want to know what they suffer from? Should we make it comfortable for criminals and house them in something that resembles a hotel??

I would be interested to know what kind of jail service Mexico provides to ease the suffering of their home grown criminals.
When did I ever state I wanted to make jail more pleasant? I've made it very clear I distaste the Mexican government. Why would I be praising its jail system?

I'm saying that it is a punishment and does deter individuals. Where do we disagree? We don't have to disagree on everything you know? We can agree on several things without having to agree with one another's view of immigration.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
You mean this?

I have to say I'm amazed you or Malamute insist that it's anything common for illegals to return home for the holidays. I've actually lived and interacted with illegals for a good portion of my life. I have heard their stories and I can assure you it's not common in any sense to return home for Christmas. Many newcomers feel a strong homesickness and end up leaving soon because they can't stand it - they don't come back. There are those who have nieces, nephews, grandchildren, or even children they have never met back home. They would love to return home to see them, but the cost of trying to do so is too high to warrant trying to cross over multiple times either way.

All you've shown is that there are exceptions. The majority of the illegal alien community does not however do it. You might have gotten away with portraying the illegal alien community in a given way in the past, but I can say that you've been wrong thus far in many points - this included. Or is there another illegal alien in this forum who can testify that the community at large goes on vacation abroad? No?

I don't get it. You frequently state things in the 'we' and seem to believe your opinion is what the majority of citizens believe. Yet when I try to represent the illegal alien community in saying that something is not as common as the media would like you to believe, surely I must be the outlier.
Okay, I guess I should ignore the numerous reports of illegal aliens routinely returning home for the holidays, and instead take your word. You must live in an extremely large community to be privy to the behavior of the majority of the estimated 12-20 million.

I notice you ignored the info I posted on the fake driver's licenses you claim "your community" doesn't use. Any comment?

No, I speak for myself. Yes, many share my stance on illegal immigration. But, I would never presume to be the spokesperson for all opponents of illegal immigration.

BTW, perhaps you'd like to direct me to my "inaccurate" portrayals of illegal aliens. I always strive for the truth, and would appreciate having my errors brought to my attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
Which offenses? Again, if it was a major offense I'd think the article would point it out. The only named violation is his lack of a driving license. Okay, he's illegal. What else though? If he frequently drinks while driving, okay let's be angry about that. Let's actually wait to confirm that before attacking him on that issue though. For now all we know for sure is he's illegal and has no license.
I don't need to know what his "other offenses" may be. He is here illegally, and his illegal presence may cost an ICE agent his job and pension. In my opinion, that's a very valid reason for anger.
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