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Old 08-06-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Lamar smith is a bigot and a liar. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
Perhaps you'd like to highlight his lies. Of course, you can't, because everything he said is true. Obama has given illegals priority status, while legal immigrants must wait. He lied, but what's new?

I know for a fact, DHS and USCIS do not have extra resources to devote to this. There's already a huge backlog for legal immigrants, and this has only exacerbated the problem. It will truly be a travesty if Obama is doing this to secure votes, only to later not deliver due to "alleged" unforeseen administrative issues. As I have previously stated, it certainly would not be the first time a major project was halted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
The answer of course is that no line should have been made at all. The problems lays in consecutive administrations continuing to fail at reforming the immigration system. The longer that reform is held back, the more costly it will be to deal with the problem.
By "reform" do you mean amnesty? Sorry, we tried that before, and we are now paying the price. And, yes, we do and should have a legal immigration line, and it begins in their country of origin. Illegals have selfishly circumvented the process, and therefore, do not deserve consideration. Naturally, when lawless behavior is rewarded, it only creates more lawlessness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
How will they be prioritized? At this point it is just loose talk about people already familiar with the waiting game. Two-thirds of those becoming Legal Permanent Residents are already in the United States in immigrant statuses anyway.

Within this forum there is constant talk of immigration moratoriums, tightening requirements for legal immigrants, blocking certain nationalities from immigrating legally...

Why should those same members complain when legal immigration will just take a longer time?...
We do not have the resources to simultaneously process legal immigrants and illegal aliens. Furthermore, you have no idea how many legal immigrants are here or waiting in their countries of origin. Contrary to your belief, your individual immigration experience does not make you an authority on legal immigration, nor privy to agency data.

Last edited by Yac; 08-07-2012 at 06:06 AM.. Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,022,544 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
We do not have the resources to simultaneously process legal immigrants and illegal aliens. Furthermore, you have no idea how many legal immigrants are here or waiting in their countries of origin. Contrary to your belief, your individual immigration experience does not make you an authority on legal immigration, nor privy to agency data.
DHS makes an annual report of the statistics for Legal Permanent Residents, which includes data from the two previous years. The report for 2011 is already out. Here is the location: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...pr_fr_2011.pdf

I stand corrected by the current report, the last few years it has dropped to just over half (54%) already being present (undoubtedly because Immigrant Visas are being processed quicker with USCIS steadily improving from the backlog of several years ago)...

Petitions to USCIS ebb and flow, when fees are about to go up, or the rules change coverage (as in this instance). USCIS only runs on petition fees, so that potential immigrants and non-immigrants are not a burden to taxpayers. If their funding is going to come up short, they raise petition fees (again, when members of this forum are not concerned about the hoops legal immigrants go through, there is no ability to complain about higher petition fees they would pay).

While my experience with USCIS is not universal, most Americans that have not navigated the system do not understand how it works. Within several years even that will become outdated as things change. I've picked up what I needed to know, and I'm often horrified by the misinformation that is put out by others that aren't that knowledgeable on the topic.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,032,787 times
Reputation: 2382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
You don't think I don't sympathize with legal migrants? I certainly do. There is a conflict of interests here between illegal aliens and legal immigrants. I don't think it's fair for legal migrants to wait in line longer. Nor do I think illegals and their employers be prohibited from peaceful trade. As I noted in my opening post though, it's neither side's fault. The culprit for the conflict of interests is the state. Reform the current immigration system and we will see this conflict of interests disappear.

Why do I assume the US need Mexico's poor people? US? Mexico? I don't give a damn about either government if you mean them.

What I do assume though is that it is fallacious to believe that a central planner knows the optimal level of labour in any region. I oppose immigration laws not soley on humanitarian grounds, but as a believer of the free market. I object to the belief that D.C. has the right to implement tariffs to give domestic producers artificially high returns. As someone versed in economics I know all too well that consumers at large suffer from a decrease in real wages from this tariff. The effects of tariffs and price floors are universal regardless of the good or service in question.

No man in DC knows the optimal rate of immigration. It is up to the individual consumer of labour to discover this individually and to transmit this information through the market process. It is obvious by the employment of illegals that there is a demand for their labour. How large the demand is though is an unknown, and so why I stress the necessity for the free movement of labour in order to allow the market efficient level to be reached.

Now go read some basic Hayek before you propose disrupting the lives of millions for the sake of upholding an ineffective and unjust series of legislation.
What you fail to realize is that we do NOT have a labor shortage in the United States. We have a surplus thanks to countless illegal aliens who have not only taken the lowest paid jobs, but have taken over whole industries. There is no demand for labor, instead it is a demand for the lowest peons that accept dirt wages instead of a living wage.
This 'free movement' is good only for those who employ illegals in order to pad their own pockets. US citizens do not want or need this 'free movement'.
(Hey, it works the other way - maybe illegals should freely move back home!)

Illegals have made life in this country hard for Americans and they are either too blind or stupid (or flat out don't care) just what they are doing to our country. They are not making this a better place to live because they have offered up their labor; hell no, Americans now struggle on subpar wages and then are made to feel like crap because they need help buying food or getting medical care.
Buy hey, it's all good because we 'need' these peons.

And, NO, I do not think you have one iota of care for legal immigrants. How can you when you are illegal yourself? As long as you and yours get what you want then to hell with anyone else. Sorry dude, but this is the attitude I am getting from your posts. You want what is best for the illegals and could not care less about the people of this country or those from other countries who actually want to be a part of this place.

Reform the system? Remove all illegals and slam the door behind them! That is the reform we want.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
DHS makes an annual report of the statistics for Legal Permanent Residents, which includes data from the two previous years. The report for 2011 is already out. Here is the location: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...pr_fr_2011.pdf

I stand corrected by the current report, the last few years it has dropped to just over half (54%) already being present (undoubtedly because Immigrant Visas are being processed quicker with USCIS steadily improving from the backlog of several years ago)...

Petitions to USCIS ebb and flow, when fees are about to go up, or the rules change coverage (as in this instance). USCIS only runs on petition fees, so that potential immigrants and non-immigrants are not a burden to taxpayers. If their funding is going to come up short, they raise petition fees (again, when members of this forum are not concerned about the hoops legal immigrants go through, there is no ability to complain about higher petition fees they would pay).

While my experience with USCIS is not universal, most Americans that have not navigated the system do not understand how it works. Within several years even that will become outdated as things change. I've picked up what I needed to know, and I'm often horrified by the misinformation that is put out by others that aren't that knowledgeable on the topic.
A report from 2011? I would be more interested in seeing data for 2012. Furthermore, regardless of the number of legal immigrants already in this country, having millions of illegal aliens jumping in line ahead of those waiting in their homelands will naturally lengthen their process. Heck, who knows how long they'll be required to wait while illegals are being processed ahead of them. This is a travesty.

While certain procedures must be followed, every legal immigration experience is unique to that individual. Again, your experience is not the standard. Nor does it qualify you as an immigration expert.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:51 PM
 
31,915 posts, read 14,699,387 times
Reputation: 8510
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Lamar smith is a bigot and a liar. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
Could you please provide proof of that? In particular his supposed bigotry? If he were truly a bigot then why would he make this statement? Why would he care one way or another about legal immigrants then? "This will lead to a backlog for legal immigrants who followed the rules, while allowing lawbreakers to skip to the front of the line."

Last edited by Oldglory; 08-06-2012 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
What you fail to realize is that we do NOT have a labor shortage in the United States. We have a surplus thanks to countless illegal aliens who have not only taken the lowest paid jobs, but have taken over whole industries. There is no demand for labor, instead it is a demand for the lowest peons that accept dirt wages instead of a living wage.
This 'free movement' is good only for those who employ illegals in order to pad their own pockets. US citizens do not want or need this 'free movement'.
(Hey, it works the other way - maybe illegals should freely move back home!)

Illegals have made life in this country hard for Americans and they are either too blind or stupid (or flat out don't care) just what they are doing to our country. They are not making this a better place to live because they have offered up their labor; hell no, Americans now struggle on subpar wages and then are made to feel like crap because they need help buying food or getting medical care.
Buy hey, it's all good because we 'need' these peons.

And, NO, I do not think you have one iota of care for legal immigrants. How can you when you are illegal yourself? As long as you and yours get what you want then to hell with anyone else. Sorry dude, but this is the attitude I am getting from your posts. You want what is best for the illegals and could not care less about the people of this country or those from other countries who actually want to be a part of this place.

Reform the system? Remove all illegals and slam the door behind them! That is the reform we want.
I'll drink to that!
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:58 PM
 
31,915 posts, read 14,699,387 times
Reputation: 8510
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
How will they be prioritized? At this point it is just loose talk about people already familiar with the waiting game. Two-thirds of those becoming Legal Permanent Residents are already in the United States in immigrant statuses anyway.

Within this forum there is constant talk of immigration moratoriums, tightening requirements for legal immigrants, blocking certain nationalities from immigrating legally...

Why should those same members complain when legal immigration will just take a longer time?...
Shouldn't we have a temporary moratorium on immigration considering the state of our economy and shortage of resources? Shouldn't we have fair and equal quotas for all nationalities?

Since we will continue to permit legal immigrants regardless of the above then the least we should do is not make them wait longer than illegal immigrants, don't you think? Legal immigrants should be rewarded for doing it right in the first place rather than being penalized, don't you think?

Last edited by Oldglory; 08-06-2012 at 03:10 PM..
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:24 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,800,370 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Perhaps you'd like to highlight his lies. Of course, you can't, because everything he said is true. Obama has given illegals priority status, while legal immigrants must wait. He lied, but what's new?

I know for a fact, DHS and USCIS do not have extra resources to devote to this. There's already a huge backlog for legal immigrants, and this has only exacerbated the problem. It will truly be a travesty if Obama is doing this to secure votes, only to later not deliver due to "alleged" unforeseen administrative issues. As I have previously stated, it certainly would not be the first time a major project was halted.
I don't really give a crap about what you "know for a fact". Who are you again? Right just an anonymous poster just like the rest of us.
If you believe this project is going to be halted in the future, then why do you keep making threads whining about it?
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:31 PM
 
31,915 posts, read 14,699,387 times
Reputation: 8510
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
DHS makes an annual report of the statistics for Legal Permanent Residents, which includes data from the two previous years. The report for 2011 is already out. Here is the location: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...pr_fr_2011.pdf

I stand corrected by the current report, the last few years it has dropped to just over half (54%) already being present (undoubtedly because Immigrant Visas are being processed quicker with USCIS steadily improving from the backlog of several years ago)...

Petitions to USCIS ebb and flow, when fees are about to go up, or the rules change coverage (as in this instance). USCIS only runs on petition fees, so that potential immigrants and non-immigrants are not a burden to taxpayers. If their funding is going to come up short, they raise petition fees (again, when members of this forum are not concerned about the hoops legal immigrants go through, there is no ability to complain about higher petition fees they would pay).

While my experience with USCIS is not universal, most Americans that have not navigated the system do not understand how it works. Within several years even that will become outdated as things change. I've picked up what I needed to know, and I'm often horrified by the misinformation that is put out by others that aren't that knowledgeable on the topic.
I haven't noticed you agreeing or disagreeing with this idea of having no immigration laws based on humanitarism for immigrants (regardless of how it impact our own citizens I gather) and this free market labor idea which would also be the result of having no immigration laws. Would you share with us what you views are on those two things?
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,022,544 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
A report from 2011? I would be more interested in seeing data for 2012. Furthermore, regardless of the number of legal immigrants already in this country, having millions of illegal aliens jumping in line ahead of those waiting in their homelands will naturally lengthen their process. Heck, who knows how long they'll be required to wait while illegals are being processed ahead of them. This is a travesty.
I doubt that USCIS will put everything else on hold or throw all resources to only processing one petition type. As I've commented, it is not congruent for many members here to worry about longer wait times for the petitions processed at USCIS. My wife still has to naturalize, but I am not real worried about the delays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...While certain procedures must be followed, every legal immigration experience is unique to that individual. Again, your experience is not the standard. Nor does it qualify you as an immigration expert.
The sentence I have highlighted here has been part of what I have tried to impress on the readership here for a year. Thank You for stating it so well. It dispels the notion that there is some kind of generic "line" that is the same for all legal immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I haven't noticed you agreeing or disagreeing with this idea of having no immigration laws based on humanitarism for immigrants (regardless of how it impact our own citizens I gather) and this free market labor idea which would also be the result of having no immigration laws. Would you share with us what you views are on those two things?
I'm not sure what you are asking, or how it relates to the discussion here...
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