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Old 08-12-2012, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,588,440 times
Reputation: 2360

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
Well, I'm not for deporting anyone. However.. Actually sure. If you want to deport taxi drivers I'll pretend not to look. I mean, as long as we're deporting people, let's deport people who actually harm our union.
Well it's nice to see you are starting from the bottom up. Get ride of those pesky American taxi drivers because they are impacting the livelihood of illegals. They certainly are a detriment and threat to my country. If you want to talk about who should be deported from my country, people who actually harm my country, let's start with illegals.

Gosh, you are full of hate aren't you? You forgot to add American citizens to your hate list.


I asked you to define your reference to "our union", which you can't seem to come up with an answer, or won't give an answer. Your avoidance is starting to make me think that "our union" is your way of saying that illegals (or would that be Mexico?) has ownership of my country. The one time this country is referred to as a "union" is when the POTUS gives his State of the Union address, and the opening line, every time, is: My fellow Americans. As long as you continue to allude that you are an American I will continue to point out the fact that you are not. Your presence in America does not make you an American. Citizenship gives one the legal right to state they are American, not by claim, not by virtue of having grown up in America, not because someone "feels like an American".

If you think there is so much wrong with my country please feel free to leave and find a country that meets your criteria so that you can live without so much hatred. It must be awful for you to live under a government that allows citizens the right to compete, not to mention all the other laws that don't suit illegals. How do you think your life would improve if Obama got his way and my government functioned under socialism? You might want to consider Russia or China as a place to reside. You are not a prisoner of this country, nor were you brought here or forced to be here by the American government. If you feel suppressed or imprisoned, blame the people who put you in that situation, which would be your parents.

If you want to reside in my country get used to the fact that if one wants to succeed, they must compete in many ways. The only business barriers I see that one must get past are establishing themself by law and making the financial, as well as the time, effort and work investment. Keep in mind that once established there are legal barriers that protect the investment. My government is guilty of allowing illegals to become too relaxed with the concept of breaking laws and having everything handed to them is acceptable.

And please..................in America, Americans don't refer to unions as cartels. The word "cartel" is reserved for the drug industry. Did you ever hear anyone use the term "drug union"???

Last edited by softblueyz; 08-12-2012 at 03:44 AM..

 
Old 08-12-2012, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,861,656 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Blacks are more scared over illegal aliens than over Jim Crow laws? JCL were before my time but if it was anything like my Irish family was treated, JC was some real bad stuff. I'm guessing older peoples memories fade over what happened 50 years ago tho me not being Black, I can't say.
I didn't say they are "more scared" of illegal aliens than Jim Crow. I said, and I quote. "In fact, many I have spoken with consider illegal immigration a greater threat to black Americans than Jim Crow." Think about it. Jim Crow, like slavery, was undeniably wrong. No ifs, ands, or buts. No decent human being would support such an injustice. Therefore, Jim Crow had to end.

Now, contrast that with illegal immigration, which has destroyed the livelihood of millions of unskilled/low-skilled and uneducated Americans, in particular, black Americans. Not only has this segment of the black population been thrown under the bus in favor of cheap labor, but they have been thrown under the bus by other black citizens and so-called black leadership, such as the NAACP and the Congressional Black Caucus; as well as white citizens and members of Congress, unions such as SEIU, and even a black president. They have all taken the moral high ground in their defense of illegal aliens, and have effectively vilified all opponents. Heck, it is now considered racist to even refer to them as illegal immigrants, let alone illegal aliens. Remember, the "Stop the Hate" campaigns, and the refusal by the media to call them anything other than "undocumented" immigrants.

Unlike Jim Crow, which was clearly evil, illegal immigration has been cleverly marketed as people who are simply seeking a better life. So, who can blame them for coming here illegally, or refusing to leave once their visas expire? Right? And, their opponents are demonized and portrayed as being haters, bigots, racists, Nazis, xenophobes, nativists, etc. Only the mean-spirited and vile would oppose offering a helping hand to these poor unfortunate folks.

To compound the problem, they have given birth to millions of children who are U.S. citizens, afforded the same rights and privileges as children born to citizens. Even their children born on foreign soil, and brought here illegally, are being accommodated and amnestied. So, I think it's safe to assume the majority will be allowed to remain in this country permanently. Therefore, unlike Jim Crow, the impact of illegal immigration on the bottom rung of black America will be felt for many generations to come.
 
Old 08-12-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,861,656 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Knight View Post
No, they've increased the wages by lowering the cost of production.
Utter nonsense! A glut of cheap, illegal labor has done nothing but depress wages. In fact, many wages are now lower than they were 30 years ago. Put down the ECON 101 textbook, and join us in the real world. Common sense dictates if there's a surplus of workers, and millions are willing to work for peanuts, the wages will be lowered, not increased. This isn't rocket science.

Furthermore, when did the greedy become so generous to share their savings with consumers by lowering prices? You obviously don't shop for groceries. My son is also 20, which is why I started sending him to the grocery store so he will understand the cost of the food he and his friends gobble down like there is no tomorrow.
 
Old 08-12-2012, 08:02 PM
 
153 posts, read 109,043 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Well it's nice to see you are starting from the bottom up. Get ride of those pesky American taxi drivers because they are impacting the livelihood of illegals.
Illegals? No, every urban dweller is made poorer because of the taxi cartel.

Quote:
Gosh, you are full of hate aren't you? You forgot to add American citizens to your hate list.
Oh no, I don't hate anyone because of their place of birth. The would be bigotry. I hate people according to their actions.

Quote:
I asked you to define your reference to "our union", which you can't seem to come up with an answer, or won't give an answer.
It's the latter. If I give you an answer it won't make you any happier than if I did. If you absolutely must though, by union I refer to the union of the many sovereign states in the form in the United States.

Quote:
Your avoidance is starting to make me think that "our union" is your way of saying that illegals (or would that be Mexico?) has ownership of my country.
I am not a supporter of creating an 'Aztlan', as some clowns are, if you are implying that.

Quote:
The one time this country is referred to as a "union" is when the POTUS gives his State of the Union address, and the opening line, every time, is: My fellow Americans. As long as you continue to allude that you are an American I will continue to point out the fact that you are not.
I am a Californian.

I would advice you against using the term American to describe yourself. It implies the USA comprises the entirety of the American continent(s). To be certain, you are an American in the same manner that a Frenchman or Pole is European. There is a legion of Canadians, Latin Americans, and Carribean folk who will attack you for suggesting that only those in the USA can claim to be Americans. I advice you as such to dispel yourself of this belief that you or the men in DC have any right to claim what is an American.

I suggest instead the use of Columbian (not Colombian) to describe those who reside in the union and wish not to be identified by their respective.

Quote:
Your presence in America does not make you an American. Citizenship gives one the legal right to state they are American, not by claim, not by virtue of having grown up in America, not because someone "feels like an American".
I am an American. As I am a Californian. I am not a citizen of the United States of America, but this does not exclude me from the former two categories.


Quote:
If you think there is so much wrong with my country please feel free to leave and find a country that meets your criteria so that you can live without so much hatred.
You leave.

Quote:
It must be awful for you to live under a government that allows citizens the right to compete, not to mention all the other laws that don't suit illegals.
I'm the one here decrying the cartel of the taxi industry and its restriction of competition. I love competition. What the city governments do by the usage of the medallion systems is not allow competition, but hinder it.

Quote:
How do you think your life would improve if Obama got his way and my government functioned under socialism?
Socialism would be awful for this country. Which is all the more reason for why I find it necessary to point out the taxi cartel. I want genuine free enterprise, and that cannot co-exist with the medallion system or other occupational licensing schemes. To the contrary these are things that simply replicate the guild system of the bygone mercantilist system.

Quote:
You might want to consider Russia or China as a place to reside.
No thank you. Russia remains a land of socialism by another name. The PRC is beginning to adopt market reforms, if for pragmatic reasons, and shows immense promise. I admire the Chinese greatly and see for them great times in the future if they are able to have political reform without a bloody revolution. In the end of the day though I am a Californian and there is much work to be done here if it is to be saved from those monkeys in Sacramento and DC.

Quote:
You are not a prisoner of this country, nor were you brought here or forced to be here by the American government. If you feel suppressed or imprisoned, blame the people who put you in that situation, which would be your parents.
No, it would be FDR. LBJ as well. As much as I liked Nixon as a person, he's got quite a bit of blame aswell for creating EPA. Oh, and how could I ever forget Wilson. These are only some of the more prominent men who've pushed us towards a higher degree of socialism.

Quote:
If you want to reside in my country get used to the fact that if one wants to succeed, they must compete in many ways.
Again, you're the one who wants to restrict competition.

And your country? I was unaware that you personally owned every piece of land in the USA. I was sure that my neighbors owned their homes, but obviously I am wrong. I was unaware that you colonized New England or traversed the Oregon trial. I was unaware that any man, or a small group of men, could legitimately claim ownership of this large expanse of land.

This land is a union of people who have agreed to live in cooperation in one another. It is fallacious though to believe that the achievements of others are our own though. I am as much entitled to live here as you are.

Quote:
The only business barriers I see that one must get past are establishing themself by law and making the financial, as well as the time, effort and work investment. Keep in mind that once established there are legal barriers that protect the investment. My government is guilty of allowing illegals to become too relaxed with the concept of breaking laws and having everything handed to them is acceptable.
Sigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Acton
I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favorable presumption that they did not wrong. If there is any presumption it is the other way against holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it.
To translate Lord Acton, it is a fallacy to believe that a politician is beyond doing wrong simply because he is in office. It is equally fallacious to believe that simply because something is 'the law', it is holy and should not be questioned. To the contrary, despite our wishes that the law be used to protect ourselves, our liberty, and property, it is all too often abused by politicians and lobbyists to attack all three. We must be willing to question the law at all times and inspect whether it is doing good and whether it is just. If it fails either test we should promptly dispose of it as it will only hinder us from progress.

Quote:
And please..................in America, Americans don't refer to unions as cartels. The word "cartel" is reserved for the drug industry. Did you ever hear anyone use the term "drug union"???
We will have to disagree on this point. Unions are labour cartels and aptly called that all the time within conservative and libertarian circles. I am unsure of what circles you travel in, so perhaps the case if different for you.

Last edited by Frank_Knight; 08-12-2012 at 08:36 PM.. Reason: Typographical error.
 
Old 08-12-2012, 08:32 PM
 
153 posts, read 109,043 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Utter nonsense! A glut of cheap, illegal labor has done nothing but depress wages. In fact, many wages are now lower than they were 30 years ago.
Oh god, we're still working with this myth of stagnant or falling wages?

Feel free to ignore the video. Between us I have no real intent in responding to change your opinion on these matters. You have your views, and I have my views. I doubt we will change our views no matter what is said. The video is for those lurking.


Are the Poor Getting Poorer? - YouTube

Quote:
Common sense dictates if there's a surplus of workers, and millions are willing to work for peanuts, the wages will be lowered, not increased. This isn't rocket science.
You still fail to grasp the difference between nominal and real wages.

High wages mean nothing is you can't buy anything with them. No one really wants money, with the exception of those of us who are coin collectors, for the sake of money. What we really value is the exchange value of money; i.e. what we can purchase with money either in the present or future.

Sure, a decrease in the labour supply would cause an increase in overall nominal wages. An increase in labour causes a decrease in nominal wages. None of that really matters though when considering real wages. What real wages concerns itself is what goods and services we can purchase - and it is here where we see a rise quality of life when we have an increase of the labour supply because of the benefits of specialization (or because of the Law of Association if you prefer that terminology).

Quote:
Furthermore, when did the greedy become so generous to share their savings with consumers by lowering prices?
It is precisely because of their greed that the rich lower prices. They lower prices (when elasticity is high) in order to compete with their rivals and earn more.

Quote:
You obviously don't shop for groceries.
I do. In fact it is where I frequently test economic theories to see if a Professor, textbook, or Smith is failing to see the real world, as it were. In retrospect a fifteen year old should not spend so much reading about marginal theory and walking between the fruit section. At the end of things I grew a strong admiration for Walmart and supermarkets, so it was not a waste of time.

Have you been to a grocery store? You absolutely must if you haven't done so in a while. Walmart in particular continues to astound me with everything that is going on. I remember awhile ago spending several minutes playing with the new fridges they have in the frozen aisle section.

You see now they have these fancy lights that only turn on when you're passing by. Otherwise the lights are off to preserve energy (and presumably lower their electricity bill). I know it sounds silly, but it's amazing in person.

Oh and McDonalds. As long as we're on the topic of food I need to praise McDonalds. I haven't eaten meat in ages and never cared for burgers, but McDonalds continues to astound me with their service. They've been revamping all there restaurants with new furnishings. You can get free internet service while inside, and the 'McCafe', while horribly cheesy in naming, offers drinks equal in quality to Starbucks or those other overpriced coffee places. I don't even drink coffee and I'm amazed at their selection.
 
Old 08-12-2012, 10:07 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,719,788 times
Reputation: 299
Frank, after quickly reading your 2 long comments, I note you still point to "quality of life" vs the "cost of living" argument. The only one arguing about the "quality of life" seems to be you. Everyone else has pointed to the "cost of living" argument. Sure the quality of life has effected everybody, hell, even the poor own cell phones, flat screen TV's, cars, washers and driers, etc, but even these products are sold based on quality. Johnny down the street owns a used Honda Civic, while Jimmy up the street owns a new Porsche. They both own cars, so what. The bottom 60% have less wealth and more debt than ever. Johnny had to get a loan for that $3K Civic while Jimmy paid cash for his $90K Porsche.

Quote:
Oh god, we're still working with this myth of stagnant or falling wages?
Your argument is based on quality of life not cost of living.

You make mention of Smith a time or to, yet seem to invoke Ricardo in opinion.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-12-2012 at 10:31 PM..
 
Old 08-12-2012, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Niflheim
1,298 posts, read 1,615,534 times
Reputation: 1049
Don't forget that we hijacked that boat at one time and kill 2/3 of the passangers and threw the rest overboard because we felt entitled to it. We were not invited in the first place.
 
Old 08-12-2012, 10:35 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,719,788 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type O Negative View Post
Don't forget that we hijacked that boat at one time and kill 2/3 of the passangers and threw the rest overboard because we felt entitled to it. We were not invited in the first place.


Feel free to leave and go back to whence your ancestors came.
 
Old 08-12-2012, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Niflheim
1,298 posts, read 1,615,534 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post


Feel free to leave and go back to whence your ancestors came.
It had crossed my mind, but maybe even further east.
 
Old 08-13-2012, 12:31 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 994,282 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Great read. What I found interesting is the discussion of the impact illegals have had on the black working class. Unfortunately black people aren't seeing the full picture and how the situation affects the black working class. I think if more understood the impact, more would come to the conclusion that Obama is NOT good for the black population. This is a valid reason not to vote for him. Voting for him on the basis that he is black is not a reason to throw a vote away. Maybe Romney should start getting out there and talk to people in the black community and get the message out that Obama is not helping the black working class, but hurting them. We know that the media won't do it as they have thrown a protective shield over Obama. It's certainly a good point that can be used in the P&OC forum when people are casting their vote for him.
Romney should not only start talking to the black community, he should run ads featuring people like this taxi driver.
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