U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-04-2007, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,249,569 times
Reputation: 4611

Advertisements


WOULD OUR COUNTRY COLLAPSE WITHOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS?



By Frosty Wooldridge
September 25, 2006
NewsWithViews.com

Last spring, an enterprising film maker created a movie titled, “A Day Without Immigrants” or something to that affect. He based his theme on his assumption that Americans couldn’t do without illegal aliens working jobs that no self-respecting citizens would work. He surmised that America would fall to its knees without this new 21st century slave class.

Since he created that film, 12 to 20 million illegal aliens, about 10 million of them from Mexico, two million from China, and millions more from around the world feel their successful crimes of breaking into America warrant amnesty. They expect more free medical care, more free schools for their children, financial freedom from paying out-of-state tuition in our colleges, free delivery of their anchor babies, chain migration of their relatives and many other ‘freebies’ paid for by American taxpayers.

They expect us to pay for their criminal activities—and, we are!

Last edited by Yac; 10-05-2007 at 11:38 AM.. Reason: shortened, copyright protection. Please provide a link to the article.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-04-2007, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,070 posts, read 15,516,060 times
Reputation: 5293
What would happen if Christopher Columbus and Ponce De Leon never discovered these lands and therefore started the onslaught of indians and the migration of millions to North America?

You can setup fences and laws, but that doesn't stop human evolution and survival instincts.

Humans migrate.


Human migration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Push and Pull Factors

Push and Pull factors are those factors which either forcefully push someone into migration or attract them. A push factor is a forceful factor, and a factor which relates to the country the person is migrating from. It is generally a problem which the results in people wanting to migrate. Different types of Push Factors can be seen further below. A pull factor is something concerning the country a person migrates to. It is generally a good thing that attracts people to a certain place. Push and Pull factors are usually considered as north and south poles on a magnet. The idea is to have the attraction in the middle, i.e the place.

Push Factors
Poor Medical Care.
Not enough jobs.
Few opportunities.
Primitive Conditions
Political fear
Fear of torture and mistreatment
Not being able to practice religion
Loss of wealth
Natural Disasters

Pull Factors
Chances of getting a job
Better living standards
Enjoyment
Education
Better Medical Care
Security
Family Links
There are forces larger than laws in the universe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 03:54 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,645,907 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
What would happen if Christopher Columbus and Ponce De Leon never discovered these lands and therefore started the onslaught of indians and the migration of millions to North America?

Human migration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.
My mother-in-law, an American Indian, answered this many years ago, and we still smile at the memory (she passed away 12 years ago).

She was passionately fond of Yosemite, and visited there several times a year. One time she was feeling concerned about the increasing crowding she saw, and said, more-or-less to herself "My poor Yosemite!...I wonder what it would be like if the white people hadn't come in and built roads and brought in all the tourists?" ....Then, realizing what she'd said, she smiled at my wife and I and admitted, "I'd probably never have heard of it"...

This little quote, whether she realized it or not, pointed up some profound truths. The Yosemite Valley, prior to "white" exploration, was home to only a few hundred individuals; it's doubtful more than a few thousand human beings in all of history ever saw the place. So most American Indians would have been as ignorant of Yosemite as anyone else. They'd never have gotten a chance to see it.

So what exactly WOULD have happened, if Columbus hadn't come? Impossible to answer, for there are just too many assumptions that would have to be made.

Another question that comes up in our family is this--if the "gringos" hadn't taken away California from Mexico (who just prior, had taken it away from Spain), would California today be the place it is? Once again, it's impossible to say. My feeling, though, is that it would be more like Sonora or Sinaloa. It's not the fact that the "gringos" stole a POTENTIALLY prosperous area that is important---it's the fact that these gringos brought with them a system of government that ALLOWED it to BECOME prosperous.

Fun to speculate on all these "what ifs", but once again, impossible to really answer. After all, "If my Aunt had b*lls, she'd be my Uncle"....But she doesn't, and she isn't......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 04:10 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,060,073 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
What would happen if Christopher Columbus and Ponce De Leon never discovered these lands and therefore started the onslaught of indians and the migration of millions to North America?

You can setup fences and laws, but that doesn't stop human evolution and survival instincts.

Humans migrate.


Human migration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There are forces larger than laws in the universe.


You cannot possibly imagine just how much I wish you could focus on today and not ancient history. It's 2007.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 04:17 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,645,907 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post

WOULD OUR COUNTRY COLLAPSE WITHOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS?


Last spring, an enterprising film maker created a movie titled, “A Day Without Immigrants” or something to that affect.
!
The problem is, we've gotten USED to illegal immigration, and incorporated it into our economy, and yes, there'd be some pain involved if it were ended tomorrow- not the least of which would be the pain of the illegals themselves, for if they suddenly became LEGAL, who would want to hire them? They'd lose their appeal as cheap and exploitable labor, begin to demand their rights, and would quickly grow tired of being taken advantage of. At that point, American labor would begin to appear more attractive, and the illegals would then become just one more angry group, having no special attraction to employers.

Big business would send up a howl of outrage, and accelerate their mad rush to "offshore" as many of their operations as possible.

Our dependence on this situation is like a modern, air-conditioned building. Most modern skyscrapers are TOTALLY dependent on air conditioning. The windows don't open, so if the AC quits, the building may well become unusable during hot weather. We've given up the "old-time" option of opening the windows.

Similarly, we've now made many jobs so that only an illegal would be willing to submit to the harsh conditions and meager pay offered. We can't just get rid of them and replace them with "legal" help without making major adjustments, like wage increases, etc.,

We've allowed ourselves, as a society, to get into this mess. And to add to our troubles, a huge number of young Americans (not YOU, of course, or YOUR kids) have absloutely zero interest in hard, difficult jobs in rough conditions, even if they DO pay well. Not all young Americans, but many do fit this description. Older Americans recall that "Americans USED to do (such-and-such a job) "....but they sometimes neglect to take into account that that doesn't mean the NEW breed of Americans will do them. I'm not sure I'd want to be in charge of some huge project, and had to depend on a crew of 22-year-old Americans to get it done. You'd be taking quite a chance.

In fact, this holds true even among the many illegals I've known personally. The "old man" is frequently a hard-working, ambitious go-getter- he's known poverty and deprivation, and wants nothing more to do with it. In many cases, though, the teen-age sons of these immigrants have no more desire to work hard than the local US teenagers. Many a hard-working immigrant has seen his kids go "astray". The culture of modern America can do that to a young person, regardless of his background.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 04:18 PM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,740,538 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post

WOULD OUR COUNTRY COLLAPSE WITHOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS?



By Frosty Wooldridge
September 25, 2006
NewsWithViews.com

Last spring, an enterprising film maker created a movie titled, “A Day Without Immigrants” or something to that affect. He based his theme on his assumption that Americans couldn’t do without illegal aliens working jobs that no self-respecting citizens would work. He surmised that America would fall to its knees without this new 21st century slave class.

Since he created that film, 12 to 20 million illegal aliens, about 10 million of them from Mexico, two million from China, and millions more from around the world feel their successful crimes of breaking into America warrant amnesty. They expect more free medical care, more free schools for their children, financial freedom from paying out-of-state tuition in our colleges, free delivery of their anchor babies, chain migration of their relatives and many other ‘freebies’ paid for by American taxpayers.

They expect us to pay for their criminal activities—and, we are!
We most certainly would not COLLAPSE WITHOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS?
In fact I think that we would prosper.
There would be funding for our poor citizens, our elderly citizens, our vets.
There would be more funding for schools and it goes on and on.
The illegals are taking so much from this country it is dizzying and makes your head spin.
Our taxes keep going up to pay for them and we all are paying for them to be here illegally!
There is not 1 single person in the USA that is not being touched in some way by the illegal aliens being in this country. They are hurting this country and we need them out and we need to keep them out.
They are like a huge vacuum sucking the very breath out of this great nation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,249,569 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
The problem is, we've gotten USED to illegal immigration, and incorporated it into our economy, and yes, there'd be some pain involved if it were ended tomorrow- not the least of which would be the pain of the illegals themselves, for if they suddenly became LEGAL, who would want to hire them? They'd lose their appeal as cheap and exploitable labor, begin to demand their rights, and would quickly grow tired of being taken advantage of. At that point, American labor would begin to appear more attractive, and the illegals would then become just one more angry group, having no special attraction to employers.

Big business would send up a howl of outrage, and accelerate their mad rush to "offshore" as many of their operations as possible.

Our dependence on this situation is like a modern, air-conditioned building. Most modern skyscrapers are TOTALLY dependent on air conditioning. The windows don't open, so if the AC quits, the building may well become unusable during hot weather. We've given up the "old-time" option of opening the windows.

Similarly, we've now made many jobs so that only an illegal would be willing to submit to the harsh conditions and meager pay offered. We can't just get rid of them and replace them with "legal" help without making major adjustments, like wage increases, etc.,

We've allowed ourselves, as a society, to get into this mess. And to add to our troubles, a huge number of young Americans (not YOU, of course, or YOUR kids) have absloutely zero interest in hard, difficult jobs in rough conditions, even if they DO pay well. Not all young Americans, but many do fit this description. Older Americans recall that "Americans USED to do (such-and-such a job) "....but they sometimes neglect to take into account that that doesn't mean the NEW breed of Americans will do them. I'm not sure I'd want to be in charge of some huge project, and had to depend on a crew of 22-year-old Americans to get it done. You'd be taking quite a chance.

In fact, this holds true even among the many illegals I've known personally. The "old man" is frequently a hard-working, ambitious go-getter- he's known poverty and deprivation, and wants nothing more to do with it. In many cases, though, the teen-age sons of these immigrants have no more desire to work hard than the local US teenagers. Many a hard-working immigrant has seen his kids go "astray". The culture of modern America can do that to a young person, regardless of his background.
That's exactly the way I've been seeing things. The ones that can see this the best are the ones that aren't " afraid to get their hands dirty".
Myself,, I was born and raised on a dairy farm.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,701,482 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
That's exactly the way I've been seening things. the ones that can see this the best are the ones that aren't " afraid to get their hands dirty".
Myself,, I was born and raised on a dairy farm.
I get my hands dirty as well
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 07:57 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,015,786 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
My mother-in-law, an American Indian, answered this many years ago, and we still smile at the memory (she passed away 12 years ago).

She was passionately fond of Yosemite, and visited there several times a year. One time she was feeling concerned about the increasing crowding she saw, and said, more-or-less to herself "My poor Yosemite!...I wonder what it would be like if the white people hadn't come in and built roads and brought in all the tourists?" ....Then, realizing what she'd said, she smiled at my wife and I and admitted, "I'd probably never have heard of it"...

This little quote, whether she realized it or not, pointed up some profound truths. The Yosemite Valley, prior to "white" exploration, was home to only a few hundred individuals; it's doubtful more than a few thousand human beings in all of history ever saw the place. So most American Indians would have been as ignorant of Yosemite as anyone else. They'd never have gotten a chance to see it.

So what exactly WOULD have happened, if Columbus hadn't come? Impossible to answer, for there are just too many assumptions that would have to be made.

Another question that comes up in our family is this--if the "gringos" hadn't taken away California from Mexico (who just prior, had taken it away from Spain), would California today be the place it is? Once again, it's impossible to say. My feeling, though, is that it would be more like Sonora or Sinaloa. It's not the fact that the "gringos" stole a POTENTIALLY prosperous area that is important---it's the fact that these gringos brought with them a system of government that ALLOWED it to BECOME prosperous.

Fun to speculate on all these "what ifs", but once again, impossible to really answer. After all, "If my Aunt had b*lls, she'd be my Uncle"....But she doesn't, and she isn't......
All great points, but I'd add the native Americans were war like and were killing and slaughtering themselves long before Europeans arrived. The Europeans just arrived a bit later than them, and were better at war due to superior technology.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,959,727 times
Reputation: 6877
Jeez, if ya got rid of all da immagrants, who ya gonna blame for all the litter, the drugs, the violence, the sex offenses, the misuse of welfare, the flow of tax dollars, etc?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top