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Old 04-07-2008, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 25,713,219 times
Reputation: 3644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilulissat View Post
I think that it is too bad that before people start making comments, they don't first find out if what they are saying have any basis. I say that, because I have spend an immense amount of time studying the mexican immigration issues. There are several things that people need to consider. These aren't really 'opinion' they are facts that you can find if you study the work that people who are studying economics, diaspora, sociology, etc.

1. undocumented mexicans actually help with inflation. They may keep wages in certain areas a little lower, but in general, it is very important for inflation that the US unemployment rate stays at a certain percentage. If all the undocumented mexicans were hearded up and excorted out, unemployement would drop and would cause a severe strain on business, forces them out of business, creating many other issues.

2. building a wall will probably only make the problem worse. We can see from Operation Gatekeeper passed in 1994 that extra border patrols has only made the problem bigger. Instead of men coming into the country for a season to earn some money and go home, they are staying for many years because of the risk of death, and from high coyote prices.

3. the mexican people want reform just as much as the american politicians say they want it. I was in mexico during the presidencial election in 2006, and one of the biggest platforms for several of the candidates was to get a better visa program working so that men aren't leaving their family for so long.

4. the US has ALWAYS depending on low paid immigrants to build the infrastructure of this country. We have even in the past had visa programs with mexican that actually worked.

I could probably go on and on. But I guess what I am trying to say, is that yes, our government needs to make some changes. They decided to build a wall, but that was when they were also going to make visa reform. The visa program hasn't changed, and now there is going to be a wall.

I wonder how the US will be able to patrol the entire Atlantic and Pacific coast once the wall is built and people are going to start using boats?
Making it a felony to hire/rent to illegal immigrants and deny birthright citizenship to US born children of the above.

That will chase most of 'em off.
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Old 04-07-2008, 10:45 PM
 
Location: POTH TX
3 posts, read 2,879 times
Reputation: 10
Default Ok Which President Do We Blame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359 View Post
While I understand the resentment and anger many Americans feel toward seeing so many illegals, mostly from Mexico, South and Centeral America illegally enter this country; I believe this anger and frustration is mis-directed toward the wrong group pf people. The fact of the matter is, Illegals would not be in this Country in such large numbers, if not for the lack of action on the part of the US Government (starting with the President) to control this illegal immigration nightmare. So let's all just face the truth. The US Government (again, starting with the President) opened this Pandora's Box and betrayed the American people, now the situation is out of control. Therefore, stop faulting the Illegals and start faulting and criticizing the true source of the problem...Your Government (starting with the President).
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Old 04-07-2008, 10:50 PM
 
Location: POTH TX
3 posts, read 2,879 times
Reputation: 10
Default Who To Blame For Immigration?

ALTHOUGH I CAN SURELY UNDERSTAND THAT WE MUST BLAME SOMEONE, WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE THE PRESIDENT AND WHAT PRESIDENT CAN WE ACTUALLY BLAME SINCE IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN HERE FOR SO LONG ILLEGALY WHO CAN WE ACTUALLY PINPOINT FOR ALL THIS MESS THE PRESIDENT IS NOT ALONE WHEN HE MAKES ALL THESE DECISIONS SO IF YOU BECAME PRESIDENT WOULD YOU BE READY FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING?
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Old 04-07-2008, 10:52 PM
 
Location: California
1,267 posts, read 51,747 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRAIGHT TRUTH View Post
ALTHOUGH I CAN SURELY UNDERSTAND THAT WE MUST BLAME SOMEONE, WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE THE PRESIDENT AND WHAT PRESIDENT CAN WE ACTUALLY BLAME SINCE IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN HERE FOR SO LONG ILLEGALY WHO CAN WE ACTUALLY PINPOINT FOR ALL THIS MESS THE PRESIDENT IS NOT ALONE WHEN HE MAKES ALL THESE DECISIONS SO IF YOU BECAME PRESIDENT WOULD YOU BE READY FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING?
Who knows.. It could be an entirely different world in the White House. They know sooo much more than we do. I would find it overwhelming to know so much knowing that many people know so little.
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Old 04-07-2008, 11:21 PM
 
35,000 posts, read 22,270,481 times
Reputation: 6092
The blame game only diverts us and scatters our energies.

Do you know your state's policy on employers who hire illegal immigrants? Do you go to town-hall meetings?

Do you work for a company that hires undocumented workers, or is there such a company in your town? What will you do, or have you done, to change the company's hiring policy?

It stands to reason that if a person can't make a living he won't hang around. So it is possible for the US to become undocumented worker-free, if every business in every town will clean itself up. Theoretically I guess.

All that said, it disturbs me too that the US and other governments wink at this issue that's so clearly causing us pain. That's called "crazy-making" behavior when a parent does it to a child. Can it really be as mundane, and as small-potatoes, as kowtowing to businesses that don't want to pay a few extra dollars for labor?

The rational answer to the problem IMO would be for the government of Mexico (e.g.) to organize its economic and education systems so as to develop decent jobs at decent wages for its own citizens, since it now has the money and the expertise - isn't that what nations do? Maybe this is happening, I dont know, but I sure havent heard about it.

I hate that they don't lay out the bigger plan for us, if there is one. How about a big rah-rah PR campagn for that highway that will run from Mexico to Canada? It does make you suspect they've got something in mind that they kinda know we'd get all agita about if we knew, so they're sneaking it in on us. But I hate to think they'd be so...contemptuous of us. Whoever "they" are in this case.

I've read a lot of science fiction but I'm impressed by what could be the big picture here - the Big Boys' plans for our worker-bee futures.

Gratuitously, some Sebastiao Salgado images of mineworkers in Brazil, 1970s and 80s

Anyway - we need to stop fighting each other and learn to stand together. We're all the sheep.

Last edited by delusianne; 04-08-2008 at 12:30 AM..
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Bora Bora: Vava'u.
738 posts, read 1,187,932 times
Reputation: 515
ANCHOR BABIES: Babies born to illegal alien mothers within U.S. borders

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Proposed 6/13/1866
Ratified 7/9/1868 ((to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans))

Get the facts straight!!!!!!!!


Many illegals cross into the US and give birth to their babies here in the USA.
Their children immediately qualify for a slew of federal, state, and local benefit programs. In addition, when the children turn 21, they can sponsor the immigration of other relatives, becoming "anchor babies" for an entire clan.

This is a well known fact. We, the taxpayers, flip the bill. The illegals do not pay. We do. Current estimates indicate there may be 287,000 and 363,000 anchor babies born each year in California.

In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36 percent of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year.

American citizens must be wary of elected politicians voting to illegally extend our generous social benefits to illegal aliens and other criminals.
If you don’t think our Congress is taking Americans for a ride, think again.
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Bora Bora: Vava'u.
738 posts, read 1,187,932 times
Reputation: 515
$6 Billion a Year for Mexican “Anchor Babies?
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Old 04-08-2008, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Bora Bora: Vava'u.
738 posts, read 1,187,932 times
Reputation: 515
The impact of immigration on our public health is often overlooked. The foreign population of special concern is..... illegal residents who come most often from countries with endemic health problems and less developed health care. They are responsible for a disproportionate share of serious public health problems, are living among us for extended periods of time, and often are dependent on U.S. health care services.

Illegal immigrants undergo no medical screening to assure that they are not bearing contagious diseases, the rapidly swelling population of illegal aliens in our country has also set off a resurgence of contagious diseases that had been totally or nearly eradicated by our public health system.

The incidence of tuberculosis in El Paso County is twice that of the U.S. rate.
Leprosy is readily evident along the U.S.-Mexico border and that dysentery is several times the U.S. rate.
The pork tapeworm is showing up along the U.S. border, threatening to ravage victims with symptoms ranging from seizures to death.

The same ILLEGAL underclass has migrated north to find jobs on the border, bringing the parasite and the sickness—cysticercosis—its eggs can cause cysts that form around the larvae usually lodge in the brain and destroy tissue, causing hallucinations, speech and vision problems, severe headaches, strokes, epileptic seizures, and in rare cases death.

The problem is not confined to the border region. ILLEGAL immigrants have rapidly spread across the country into many new economic sectors such as food processing, construction, and hospitality services. River blindness, malaria, and guinea worm, have all been brought to Northern Virginia by immigration.

Another problem is immigrants’ use of hospital and emergency services rather than preventative medical care. The utilization rate of hospitals and clinics by illegal aliens is more than twice the rate of the overall U.S. population. The costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.

Between 1993 and 2003, 60 hospitals in California alone were forced to close, and many others had to reduce staff or implement other procedures which reduced the level of service they could provide. The article attributes these closings mainly to illegal immigration.

Yeah, go ahead and let them in. Can they stay with YOU at YOUR house???

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-08-2008, 01:49 AM
 
31 posts, read 41,914 times
Reputation: 18
Default did you actually read what I wrote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Making it a felony to hire/rent to illegal immigrants and deny birthright citizenship to US born children of the above.

That will chase most of 'em off.
Uh - I think you missed my point. Are you native american? I always wonder when people start going off about coming into someone else's land. Maybe they should get together and chase us all off?

If you read (and tried to understand) what I wrote, what you are suggesting isn't possible and would actually be bad. Seeing that you are from Arizona, I guess that now that Mexicans have built your communities, it is time to kick them out, right? Are you willing to pay double for your house and groceries because someone else is doing the work?
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:01 AM
 
31 posts, read 41,914 times
Reputation: 18
Default good arguments, but....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZEL View Post
The impact of immigration on our public health is often overlooked. The foreign population of special concern is..... illegal residents who come most often from countries with endemic health problems and less developed health care. They are responsible for a disproportionate share of serious public health problems, are living among us for extended periods of time, and often are dependent on U.S. health care services.

Illegal immigrants undergo no medical screening to assure that they are not bearing contagious diseases, the rapidly swelling population of illegal aliens in our country has also set off a resurgence of contagious diseases that had been totally or nearly eradicated by our public health system.

The incidence of tuberculosis in El Paso County is twice that of the U.S. rate.
Leprosy is readily evident along the U.S.-Mexico border and that dysentery is several times the U.S. rate.
The pork tapeworm is showing up along the U.S. border, threatening to ravage victims with symptoms ranging from seizures to death.

The same ILLEGAL underclass has migrated north to find jobs on the border, bringing the parasite and the sickness—cysticercosis—its eggs can cause cysts that form around the larvae usually lodge in the brain and destroy tissue, causing hallucinations, speech and vision problems, severe headaches, strokes, epileptic seizures, and in rare cases death.

The problem is not confined to the border region. ILLEGAL immigrants have rapidly spread across the country into many new economic sectors such as food processing, construction, and hospitality services. River blindness, malaria, and guinea worm, have all been brought to Northern Virginia by immigration.

Another problem is immigrants’ use of hospital and emergency services rather than preventative medical care. The utilization rate of hospitals and clinics by illegal aliens is more than twice the rate of the overall U.S. population. The costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.

Between 1993 and 2003, 60 hospitals in California alone were forced to close, and many others had to reduce staff or implement other procedures which reduced the level of service they could provide. The article attributes these closings mainly to illegal immigration.

Yeah, go ahead and let them in. Can they stay with YOU at YOUR house???

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
You have some very important information here. I think that what you are saying is definately true, but the problem lies within the current visa laws. That is why it is so important for visa reform. We are at a standstill because people aren't willing to budge.

I don't think that women should just come here to have babies, but a lot of them are actually coming with their spouse because of what I wrote about in my earlier post. Women in mexico are sick of seeing their husbands leave and have decided to come with them. If a good visa program is working, this wouldn't be as much of a problem.

The fact is, in 1994, only 4 million undocumented workers were here. Once legislation was passed to reinforce the border, it has gone up to over 12 million! That obviously doesn't work. There need to be new solutions, instead of people being angry about what has already happened. We can't fault some kid for being born here, going to school here, never having set foot in mexico, and then say - kick 'em out! Building a big wall is probably going to make the problem worse.

This is a huge problem, with as many facets as a diamond. I don't think that I know what are the best solutions, but I guess I just wish that people would try to look at a few of the facets, instead of just one, then forming an opinion
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