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Old 08-21-2012, 07:08 AM
 
1,310 posts, read 907,243 times
Reputation: 829

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
I know you think immigrants are the wrong kinds of people. This is the what most conservatives think about immigrants whether legal or undocumented.
Illegal immigrants are the wrong kinds of people.

They are criminals. We should not welcome criminals into our lands, at the expense of the taxpayer.

I'm assuming you are a "progressive" or a communist, so you probably want high taxes, less liberty, open borders, etc. so I'm not sure why I'm even debating with you.

 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,034,362 times
Reputation: 7701
There are a couple of things to note here after reading through all the responses:

1. Educating illegal immigrants is pragmatic. It might not fit someones ideology, but the alternative is millions of unproductive people who cannot read or write lounging around on the welfare rolls because they can't get a job. And, they can't get a job because they're uneducated. Moreover, the public schools are where we were all "Americanized" and is where they too will learn to be American's.

What's wrong with that?

2. Illegal vs legal. It's pretty simple. Why do you think there are between 10-20 million people here illegally if not because they could not come here legally? Paying a coyote to sneak you across the blistering Arizona desert really isn't the preferred method of coming to America for anyone, even those who have done it. Every one of them would have rather come here legally, but the system is so unwieldy, time consuming and expensive that it's easier and quicker to just sneak in. When you have a house full of hungry children to feed, jumping through the hoops for several YEARS to obtain legal entry is a non-starter.

The point is that if you want to end illegal immigration, make it easier to come here legally. How hard is that to understand?

Case in point: (This may have changed by now, but the last time I was in El Paso for any length of time, this process was being used. In any case, it highlights the problem.)

To gain legal entry into the United States to do day labor, the procedure is for everyone who wants to work in El Paso for the day to line up on the Juarez side and get a document required to enter. Then, they leave that line and get into another one to receive permission to enter. The lines are so long, and the bureaucracy so inefficient, that by the time the typical day laborer gets permission to enter and work for a day, it's late in the afternoon and the work day is over. All he's accomplished is to have stood in line all day for nothing. And, he can't get permission today to work tomorrow. It has to be done on the day he wants to work.

Now...what would YOU do? The same as everyone else...wade the river and work.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:14 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,099,270 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
I don't have a plan. I have explained my point about expanding legal immigration.

Yes, you also prove my point that those who rile against illegal immigration have a problem with immigration period. Yes, this is point I have been making that those people believe that too many people from the wrong nations are coming to this country and destroying it.

Now instead of you saying yes Iamme73, I agree, you go around the mulberry bush.
The problem is, is that we have immigration on two fronts. We can document who comes here legally.
We can't document who comes illegally. Legal immigration is being taken over by illegal immigration mainly hispanics.

If states start making it tougher on illegals they will self deport. Schooling, benefits, medical, work permits, & voting are all things the American people benefit from. Illegals are gaining almost full fledge American benefits. That is the illegals only bargaining chip. Take that away they will self deport.

Another benefit they have & take advantage of of is their large #'s. That is why they are so concerned with increasing their #'s. Democracy can sometimes be a weakness in this light.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:15 AM
 
23,883 posts, read 17,582,241 times
Reputation: 12767
Since the title of this thread is the usual deception by the pro-illegal faction, and is actually about ILLEGAL immigration, shouldn't it be in the illegal immigration forum?
 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:21 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,077,817 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
My wife is a legal immigrant and naturalized citizen, I still oppose liberal immigration policies when we have 8+% unemployment.

We should cherry pick our immigrants. Choosing those who are unlikely to end up on the public dole.

Why would expanded legal immigration greatly reduce illegal immigration?

The fact is that even in times of low unemployment it is quite questionable if you should have liberal immigration policies when you have a welfare state. Immigrants throughout our history have been relatively impoverished. Liberal immigration strains the state's resources.
Do I have to explain the law of supply and demand?

There is a demand to immigrate to this nation. This nation's immigration laws creates the supply of legal ways to do it. The supply doesn't meet the demand. This creates the supply of ways to illegally immigrate to this nation because of this unmet demand.

If the supply of legal immigration paths were greatly increased then the unmet demand decreases and thus the supply for illegal immigration decreases.

Again, you prove my point, that conservatives don't just have a problem with illegal immigration, they have a problem with immigration period because they think too many people from the wrong kinds of nations would come here and destroy the country.

I have no idea why conservatives shy away from admitting the reality of their policy positions.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:22 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,099,270 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
I don't know what most people want. We are discussing what conservatives want. Conservatives don't want legal immigration expanded because they have a problem with the people who would come here legally, which of course proves that they don't only have a problem with illegal immigration, just as you admitted they have a problem with legal immigration.
We already legally immigrate more people than any country in the world. That is enough right there.

We either enforce current laws. Take away benefits & re-clarify the 16th amendment or loose our country.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:26 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,077,817 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They have no desire to make you feel better about your delusions.
Sadly you are attempting to make the discussion about a screen name.

Read what conservatives write about immigration. Listen to what the say.

Think about the point Im making. If illegal immigration is truly the problem, and legal immigration is loved, then greatly expanding legal immigration which will lower illegal immigration is a win win for those who claim to only have a problem with illegal immigration. This is objective reality.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:28 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,077,817 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
My wife is a legal immigrant. We worked hard and spent a lot of time and money getting her legal status. Illegals are the problem.
If undocumented immigrants are the problem, then you should support greatly expanding legal immigration to get more legal immigrants and fewer undocumented immigrants.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:30 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,099,270 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Do I have to explain the law of supply and demand?

There is a demand to immigrate to this nation. This nation's immigration laws creates the supply of legal ways to do it. The supply doesn't meet the demand. This creates the supply of ways to illegally immigrate to this nation because of this unmet demand.

If the supply of legal immigration paths were greatly increased then the unmet demand decreases and thus the supply for illegal immigration decreases.

Again, you prove my point, that conservatives don't just have a problem with illegal immigration, they have a problem with immigration period because they think too many people from the wrong kinds of nations would come here and destroy the country.

I have no idea why conservatives shy away from admitting the reality of their policy positions.
There is a supply & demand to get money.

There are legal ways such as working getting a job. But that demand is not always met with a job.

Bank robbers, shop lifters are meeting that other demand. Lets keep pushing for more of this.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 07:31 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,077,817 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Indeed they will argue that the wrong kinds are coming here. That would be those who want to do thing illegaly. But again, that is not being anti-immigrant.
Then greatly increasing legal immigration is a solution to the problem of illegal immigration. Why don't those who are against illegal immigration strongly push for greatly expanding legal immigration?
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