U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-21-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Not only were the same old lines repeated over and over ad nauseum but someone seems to think this is their own personal conservative bashing topic. Regardless if one is a conservative or a liberal most Americans realize that we have to limit our immigration numbers. That doesn't make them an anti-immigrant.
That argument is so lame it's beyond pathetic. I laugh when I hear pro-illegals claim only conservatives oppose illegal immigration. I am not a conservative or a Republican. Nor are most of my family and friends. But, we ALL oppose illegal immigration. I was a lifelong Democrat until they started pandering to illegals. I am now an Independent. I laugh even harder when I'm accused of hating Hispanics simply because I don't welcome illegals with open arms.

 
Old 08-21-2012, 03:19 PM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,423,613 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Look, you sound frustrated ... and I understand that. Here's the deal ... the leftist lunatics are suicidal and self destructive. Don't ask me why, because no one has the answer for how someone can consistently embrace any and every possible means to inflict disaster upon themselves. It's totally senseless, so trying to make sense of it is an impossible task. And unfortunately, the people in the psychiatric community who are supposed to be the experts on such matters are predominately leftist psychopaths themselves.

I mean, how can you reason with someone who argues the legitimacy of strip searching grandma like a terrorist in the airports, patting down 3 year olds, fondling breasts and testicles ... claiming that there is nothing unconstitutional about that, but then turns right around and claim how un-American it is to protect our borders from illegal invaders?

But the constitution doesn't need to change ... it's fine just the way it is. One of the primary responsibilities of the federal government is to protect the border integrity of the country, which includes repelling unarmed invasion just as they are required to defend against armed invasion. We have specific immigration policies and laws just like every other sovereign nation has, and the government is responsible, constitutionally, to enforce those laws. It is a national security issue. They need to stop shaking down obvious citizens in the airports, treating us like criminals, and fix this disaster that has 20 MILLION illegals gaming our system. The problem is, we have criminals running the government who refuse to honor these constitutional obligations, and when a state like Arizona attempts to defend their own border, they get sued, and their efforts are blocked and thwarted, to the cheers and applause of the leftist sycophants. It's mass insanity.

It's quite alright for you to have to show your ID on request ... or provide a birth certificate to get a drivers license or a passport, but God forbid the president of the United States should have to prove he's actually eligible after 3 1/3 years in office, and OH NO we can't check the citizenship status of that family who can't speak enough English to order a burger at Wendy's, so we create foreign language forms to assist them in securing public assistance that you get to pay for .... and again, the crowds on the left cheer loudly.

Is it crazy? No ... it's stark raving lunacy that makes simple craziness look sane.

This is the closest explanation you likely find for idiocy like this:

Amazon.com: The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness (9780977956302): Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr., M.D.: Books

Are Liberals Out of Their Minds? Why do modern liberals think and act as they do? The radical left's politics and its destructive effects on our basic freedoms have provoked many to speculate on what makes these people tick. The Liberal Mind answers the question. This book is the first systematic analysis of the political madness that now threatens to destroy the West's greatest achievement: the American dream of civilized liberty. In his penetrating analysis, Dr. Rossiter reveals modern liberalism's assaults on: The freedom of adults to make good lives for themselves by cooperating with others, The ability of families to raise children to be self-reliant and mutual, and The morals, rights and laws that protect our freedoms. Modern liberalism's irrationality can only be understood as the product of psychopathology. So extravagant are the patterns of thinking, emoting, behaving and relating that characterize the liberal mind that its relentless protests and demands become understandable only as disorders of the psyche. The Liberal Mind reveals the madness of the modern liberal for what it is: a massive transference neurosis acted out in the world's political arenas, with devastating effects on the institutions of liberty.

Hope that helps.
Your entire post is dead on! Bravo
 
Old 08-21-2012, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleRain_1 View Post
Your entire post is dead on! Bravo
Ditto! He nailed it.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 03:52 PM
 
2,548 posts, read 1,800,672 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Ok let me understand this. So they can not ask them to prove they are here legally but we won't know for sure because we can't ask? Yeah that makes perfect sense. As for the Constitution it was written under very different times and IMO there are parts that should be changed.
Food for thought
Quote:
Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
 
Old 08-21-2012, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,521 posts, read 26,139,087 times
Reputation: 26513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Okay, I'll explain step by step. In the world, there are only so many people who want to migrate to any given nation and leave their family and friends behind. The vast majority of people won't do that.
Since this statement is the basis for your argument, you really need to provide some evidence that it is true. It is nothing more than your opinion, and the rest of your argument collapses because its foundation is faulty. The truth is that if we merely increase the number of people allowed to immigrate, but do not change the rules about who can do so, we end up with more doctors and engineers, but the people who currently come here illegally still cannot qualify and continue to enter illegally. We have more legal immigrants and just as many illegal ones.

The number of people who want to immigrate to the USA may be finite, but it is enormous. It is impossible to let everyone who wants to come be allowed to do so.

This article addresses the effects on jobs. It does not separate illegal and legal immigrants, and it does not discuss the effects of illegal immigration on such things as education and medical resources. It is irrelevant to the discussion because it does not arrive at a net effect on the economy.

Your link above includes statistics on jobs and businesses, but again it does not include any statistics about consumption of resources by illegal immigrants. For example, it estimates the decrease in gross domestic product and projects a loss of jobs if every illegal immigrant were to be expelled from the country, but it does not estimate the decrease in medical or educational costs or costs of criminal activities. Most of the statistics in the article refer to legal immigrants.

From your link above:

"Given the enormous imbalances in earning levels between the United States and Mexico, it is possible that the flow of unauthorized immigrants will remain large, even in the presence of a competing legal program. Hanson has argued that creation of a new, legal path to citizenship for those currently here illegally might encourage more people to come illegally in hopes of future legalization."

I agree with Hanson. Although I am sorry for the young people who were brought here illegally by their parents, any amnesty for them, no matter how limited, encourages other parents to continue doing the same thing.

From your link above:

"Both Griswold and Shierholz acknowledge that some workers may be harmed by an influx of immigrant labor. Griswold writes that 'low skilled immigrants do exert mild downward pressure on the lowest paid American workers,' though the overall impact on jobs and the economy is positive. Another economist, George Borjas, an advocate of clamping down on immigration, found that between 1980 and 2000 native born Americans without a high school education saw their wages decline 7.4 per cent because of immigrant labor."

In other words, the people most harmed are the poorest Americans.

This link is just an opinion of someone who wants to open the doors and let everyone come, no questions asked. The blog is ancient and the links no longer work.

Again, the emphasis in this link is on skilled immigrants. The majority of illegal immigrants are not skilled. they will not be starting businesses and applying for patents.

And none of the links even mention how much of the money earned by illegal immigrants gets sent back home to their native countries.

Quote:
These are all articles about how immigration would help the US economy.
None of them tell the full story, do they?

FYI: I have no political party affiliation. I do have a daughter-in-law who is a legal immigrant (a highly skilled one) from Mexico.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,576 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
First I don't know if undocumented immigrants are so dirt poor that they wouldn't meet the current requirements if legal immigration were greatly expanded. But expanding the requirements so more people are eligible would still solve that particular issue as well.

So again, you another conservative who agrees with me. Conservatives aren't just against illegal immigration, they are against immigration period because they think too many people from the wrong kinds of nations come to this country and destroy it.

I don't know why this simple reality is so difficult for conservatives to admit is what motivates their anti-immigration views.
We already have an expanded ability for workers to enter, the H2A visa has no cap limit, all the worlds poor can enter on it, yet it never reaches more then about 30,000 visas per year.. There are numerous unused visas, the TN comes to mind here (Mexico and Canada NAFTA visa).

You're broad brushing what you want conservatives to be by over generalizing the argument. You claim to listen to what conservatives say by the words they type, yet fail in recognizing the distinctions they make.

Simple reality is defined in terms not over generalization and broad brush strokes.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 05:19 PM
 
5,911 posts, read 6,358,838 times
Reputation: 5452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
I don't know what most people want. We are discussing what conservatives want. Conservatives don't want legal immigration expanded because they have a problem with the people who would come here legally, which of course proves that they don't only have a problem with illegal immigration, just as you admitted they have a problem with legal immigration.
No, I admitted most Americans would not want to GREATLY increase legal immigrant admissions. Plenty of oppurtunities for the demssuborn crease the numbers of admissions over the years but have not. They know most Americans both dems and repubs want legal immigration but with a limitation on those admitted.

It's absurd to simply state that if you want to control the number of immigrants to the US that you're against legal immigration. It's simply not true and you know it but don't have a better argument so the olds race card comes out.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 05:27 PM
 
31,587 posts, read 14,599,205 times
Reputation: 8419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
We already have an expanded ability for workers to enter, the H2A visa has no cap limit, all the worlds poor can enter on it, yet it never reaches more then about 30,000 visas per year.. There are numerous unused visas, the TN comes to mind here (Mexico and Canada NAFTA visa).

You're broad brushing what you want conservatives to be by over generalizing the argument. You claim to listen to what conservatives say by the words they type, yet fail in recognizing the distinctions they make.

Simple reality is defined in terms not over generalization and broad brush strokes.
I'd like to know who these "wrong kinds of nations" are. I believe it was Benicar who posted the statistics signifying what nations are sending the most immigrants. Are there some nations being discriminated against? I didn't see any stats about European immigrants. I guess their numbers are so low that they were included in the other catagory. Does that mean that they are among the wrong kinds of nations? Must be.

Last edited by Oldglory; 08-21-2012 at 05:38 PM..
 
Old 08-21-2012, 05:28 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,576 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
No what I presented is reality. We don't refer to everyone who breaks this nation's laws as criminals and I supplied examples of this nation's laws that are routinely broken and in which people are not considered a criminal for breaking.

I did read your assertion. I think you need to read the US immigration law. Illegal immigration isn't even by itself considered a criminal infraction. It is a civil one.

The crimes we think are the most serious are considered felonies why isn't "illegal" immigration?
Illegally crossing the border (EWI), if caught is a Class 4 Federal Misdemeanor, a second time is a Class 6 Federal Felony. Those are "Federal Crimes". What you claim as a "civil infraction" is the overstaying of a visa, for which the person can apply for an adjustment of status to regain legal presence. Please learn the difference and define your argument as you typically over-generalize and attempt to lay claim based on broad brushed ignorance.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 05:35 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,576 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
The articles are about both legal and illegal immigration and the positive impact they have on the economy.
Every economist out there will differentiate between illegal with no skills and legal immigrants with high skills. They all claim no skill illegals do not positively impact the economy, in fact they claim they reduce the GDP by $14 billion per year. Even the Progressive Paul Krugman states the obvious Notes on Immigration - NYTimes.com
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top