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Old 08-21-2012, 01:53 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,084,823 times
Reputation: 2314

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creekcat View Post
How would allowing; "many, many, many more people to immigrate to this nation, legally", fix the illegal immigration problem?
You seriously cannot connect the dots.

Okay, I'll explain step by step. In the world, there are only so many people who want to migrate to any given nation and leave their family and friends behind. The vast majority of people won't do that.

Now of the people who are willing to do that a certain percentage want to go to different nations.

So that means when all is said and done an individual nation may have some number of people who want to migrate to that nation.

Now if that nation's laws limit immigration to far below the number of people wanting to immigrate to that nation. This creates the dynamic of a higher demand for legal immigration not met by the supply.

Now within those people who want to come to a nation but can't because of immigration laws, there is sub population of people who are willing to go to that nation illegally or overstay their work visas.

If that same nation increased or sped up the path of legal immigration this reduces its illegal immigration.

 
Old 08-21-2012, 01:59 AM
 
8,806 posts, read 5,346,596 times
Reputation: 3675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
This is classic immigration fear, exaggerating/lying about the number of undocumented immigrants. The government estimated that there are 10.8 million undocumented immigrants in 2009. You nearly double the number.
Number of illegal immigrants in U.S. may be closer to 20 million - OhMyGov News

Just how many illegal aliens are in the United States? - Norfolk Crime | Examiner.com

The federal government continues to tell us that there are 12 million illegal aliens currently living in the United States. However, the actual number in undoubtedly four to five times higher.


The way the official numbers are estimated is a blatant fraud ... I don't know if I buy the 4 to 5 times higher number, but twice the official figure is a conservative estimate, based on US Border Patrol data over the past 20 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Again, it defies credulity to deny the absolute connection between the amount of illegal immigration versus the amount of legal immigration allowed. They are directly related. The limits of both time and numbers is directly related to the amount of immigration we have in this nation and that impacts the amount of illegal immigration.

Understand, I am not writing that immigration should be greatly expanded. What I am writing is that if illegal immigration is the only problem of those who harp on undocumented immigrants destroying the nation, then greatly expanding legal immigration would take care of that problem.

This should be a solution that one hears from those who have an issue with illegal immigration to greatly expand legal immigration, but that never happens.
Yes, now I get where you're coming up with this .... so you think hey, simple problem to fix ... just greatly expand legal immigration by giving all the illegals a couple of documents to fill out and bada bing bada boom ... problem solved?

Look ... it doesn't work that way This isn't like going to the local library and applying for a library card for God's sake, or a passport. There are criteria ... procedures ... limits on volume. Those limits are there for a reason. You cannot just bombard local economies with massive numbers of bodies without crashing that local economy. How about we send all of them to your house ... I'm sure you can handle feeding and housing and clothing a couple hundred strangers, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Those who dislike illegal immigration don't like immigration period, and wouldn't be supportive of greatly expanding legal immigration because they perceive that too many legal immigrants would come from the wrong kinds of nations which they believe is destroying this country.
You keep using this term ... "greatly expanding". NO .. we don't need to greatly expand the flow of poor dependents ... we already have Millions too many of poor, dependent people on public assistance. Why would anyone think it a good idea to do that ..... unless they were mentally disturbed?
 
Old 08-21-2012, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Sale Creek, TN
3,802 posts, read 3,437,116 times
Reputation: 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
You seriously cannot connect the dots.
I'm sorry, but you lost me when this was your first sentence.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 02:03 AM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,029,454 times
Reputation: 2382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
This is classic immigration fear, exaggerating/lying about the number of undocumented immigrants. The government estimated that there are 10.8 million undocumented immigrants in 2009. You nearly double the number.

Again, it defies credulity to deny the absolute connection between the amount of illegal immigration versus the amount of legal immigration allowed. They are directly related. The limits of both time and numbers is directly related to the amount of immigration we have in this nation and that impacts the amount of illegal immigration.

Understand, I am not writing that immigration should be greatly expanded. What I am writing is that if illegal immigration is the only problem of those who harp on undocumented immigrants destroying the nation, then greatly expanding legal immigration would take care of that problem.

This should be a solution that one hears from those who have an issue with illegal immigration to greatly expand legal immigration, but that never happens.

Those who dislike illegal immigration don't like immigration period, and wouldn't be supportive of greatly expanding legal immigration because they perceive that too many legal immigrants would come from the wrong kinds of nations which they believe is destroying this country.
Illegal aliens are destroying this country by entering without permission, overcrowding our schools (and prisons) and bringing with them diseases and intellectually disabled people. These are the type of people that WOULD NOT be allowed to immigrate here if they were allowed to do so legally.
It is not those who come from the wrong nations, but those who come without an education and expect this country to take care of them. They are overburdening the system is so many ways.
You see, we have enough people just like them in the United States, we don't need to import more. These illegal aliens KNOW this and they simply don't care that we don't need people with less than a high school education.

Whether we allow 1 million legal immigrants a year or 1 trillion, we will still have the same people sneaking into our country.
Why is it so hard to understand that the United States does not want nor need the poor, stupid people from the rest of the world? THESE are the illegals - or a majority of them. They have nothing to offer this country, but we should let them in anyway. This thinking is just wrong.
We do not need them here taking the lowest paid jobs (and undercutting United States citizens) and other benefits. We do not need them here destroying our school systems and our hospitals.

Those who can't see the destruction the illegals have caused are the blind ones. It didn't just start yesterday.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 02:08 AM
 
8,806 posts, read 5,346,596 times
Reputation: 3675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
You seriously cannot connect the dots.

Okay, I'll explain step by step. In the world, there are only so many people who want to migrate to any given nation and leave their family and friends behind. The vast majority of people won't do that.

Now of the people who are willing to do that a certain percentage want to go to different nations.

So that means when all is said and done an individual nation may have some number of people who want to migrate to that nation.

Now if that nation's laws limit immigration to far below the number of people wanting to immigrate to that nation. This creates the dynamic of a higher demand for legal immigration not met by the supply.

Now within those people who want to come to a nation but can't because of immigration laws, there is sub population of people who are willing to go to that nation illegally or overstay their work visas.

If that same nation increased or sped up the path of legal immigration this reduces its illegal immigration.
Thank you. Why didn't you just say this in the first place. Your plan is nothing more that removing the borders and granting immediate legal residency to all that want to come ... so they wouldn't have to do it illegally.

What part of THAT WOULD FIX NOTHING can you not grasp? What do you think the problem is with illegal immigration anyway? The PROBLEM with illegal immigration is volume of bodies entering the country which is over taxing the available resources. The illegals are bypassing the system which is designed to keep those numbers to manageable, non destructive levels.

God lord. I'm done here. Please continue the mental illness debate without me. My head can't take it.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 02:18 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,084,823 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Number of illegal immigrants in U.S. may be closer to 20 million - OhMyGov News

Just how many illegal aliens are in the United States? - Norfolk Crime | Examiner.com

The federal government continues to tell us that there are 12 million illegal aliens currently living in the United States. However, the actual number in undoubtedly four to five times higher.


The way the official numbers are estimated is a blatant fraud ... I don't know if I buy the 4 to 5 times higher number, but twice the official figure is a conservative estimate, based on US Border Patrol data over the past 20 years.



Yes, now I get where you're coming up with this .... so you think hey, simple problem to fix ... just greatly expand legal immigration by giving all the illegals a couple of documents to fill out and bada bing bada boom ... problem solved?

Look ... it doesn't work that way This isn't like going to the local library and applying for a library card for God's sake, or a passport. There are criteria ... procedures ... limits on volume. Those limits are there for a reason. You cannot just bombard local economies with massive numbers of bodies without crashing that local economy. How about we send all of them to your house ... I'm sure you can handle feeding and housing and clothing a couple hundred strangers, right?



You keep using this term ... "greatly expanding". NO .. we don't need to greatly expand the flow of poor dependents ... we already have Millions too many of poor, dependent people on public assistance. Why would anyone think it a good idea to do that ..... unless they were mentally disturbed?
I don't care about your fantasies nor the fantasies of others about the number of illegal immigrants in this nation. So there is no need to send me links to silly thinking.

You don't get where I am coming from. Here is the thing. There is a certain amount of people who want to migrate to this nation. Our immigration laws allow only so many to come here. This demand compared to the unmet supply is the population of which we will get those who come here illegally.

So by the law of supply and demand, if you increase the supply of ways to come here legally, you decrease the demand for illegal immigration. This is objective reality.

Again, I am not advocating expanding immigration, you can't read for comprehension. It is my contention that those people who say they have no problem with legal immigration only illegal immigration are lying.

My way to demonstrate they are lying is to suggest the one policy solution that will get them more of the legal immigration they say they like and less of the illegal immigration they don't.

But since of course they don't just have a problem with illegal immigration and instead have a problem with too many people from the wrong kinds of nations coming to this nation, they don't support expanding legal immigration.

They have a problem with immigration period.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 02:20 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,084,823 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creekcat View Post
I'm sorry, but you lost me when this was your first sentence.
I don't care.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 02:24 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,084,823 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
Illegal aliens are destroying this country by entering without permission, overcrowding our schools (and prisons) and bringing with them diseases and intellectually disabled people. These are the type of people that WOULD NOT be allowed to immigrate here if they were allowed to do so legally.
It is not those who come from the wrong nations, but those who come without an education and expect this country to take care of them. They are overburdening the system is so many ways.
You see, we have enough people just like them in the United States, we don't need to import more. These illegal aliens KNOW this and they simply don't care that we don't need people with less than a high school education.

Whether we allow 1 million legal immigrants a year or 1 trillion, we will still have the same people sneaking into our country.
Why is it so hard to understand that the United States does not want nor need the poor, stupid people from the rest of the world? THESE are the illegals - or a majority of them. They have nothing to offer this country, but we should let them in anyway. This thinking is just wrong.
We do not need them here taking the lowest paid jobs (and undercutting United States citizens) and other benefits. We do not need them here destroying our school systems and our hospitals.

Those who can't see the destruction the illegals have caused are the blind ones. It didn't just start yesterday.
I get it you don't like immigrants. Why not just say that instead of going on with your fantasies?

I get it though you have to justify why you dislike immigrants so they have to be scapegoated so you won't see yourself for what you are.

I don't know why people think confirming the very things I have been writing is a logical path to follow.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 02:26 AM
 
56 posts, read 52,673 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
I don't care about your fantasies nor the fantasies of others about the number of illegal immigrants in this nation. So there is no need to send me links to silly thinking.

You don't get where I am coming from. Here is the thing. There is a certain amount of people who want to migrate to this nation. Our immigration laws allow only so many to come here. This demand compared to the unmet supply is the population of which we will get those who come here illegally.

So by the law of supply and demand, if you increase the supply of ways to come here legally, you decrease the demand for illegal immigration. This is objective reality.

Again, I am not advocating expanding immigration, you can't read for comprehension. It is my contention that those people who say they have no problem with legal immigration only illegal immigration are lying.

My way to demonstrate they are lying is to suggest the one policy solution that will get them more of the legal immigration they say they like and less of the illegal immigration they don't.

But since of course they don't just have a problem with illegal immigration and instead have a problem with too many people from the wrong kinds of nations coming to this nation, they don't support expanding legal immigration.

They have a problem with immigration period.

No we don't. We have a problem with people coming here illegally and breaking the law. And I agree with GuyInTexas about the number here. I don't trust my governemtn much but I can tell you it's defintely somewhere between 12-20 million here illegally.


Plus we've granted over 1 million here per year legally for about 20 years now. No country has anywhere near that number they let in per year than what the USA allows. There was a time when I thought extreme conservatism was a threat and to a certain extent I still do. But damn if there isn't just as bad extreme left that is just as bad as the far right. I'm tired of being called a racist if I don't support obama 100 percent, have some sympathy with the tea party ideology, or think that illegal aliens should be deported.
 
Old 08-21-2012, 02:29 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,084,823 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Thank you. Why didn't you just say this in the first place. Your plan is nothing more that removing the borders and granting immediate legal residency to all that want to come ... so they wouldn't have to do it illegally.

What part of THAT WOULD FIX NOTHING can you not grasp? What do you think the problem is with illegal immigration anyway? The PROBLEM with illegal immigration is volume of bodies entering the country which is over taxing the available resources. The illegals are bypassing the system which is designed to keep those numbers to manageable, non destructive levels.

God lord. I'm done here. Please continue the mental illness debate without me. My head can't take it.

I don't have a plan. I have explained my point about expanding legal immigration.

Yes, you also prove my point that those who rile against illegal immigration have a problem with immigration period. Yes, this is point I have been making that those people believe that too many people from the wrong nations are coming to this country and destroying it.

Now instead of you saying yes Iamme73, I agree, you go around the mulberry bush.
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