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Old 08-23-2012, 11:44 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Again, this is not true. The current administration has made it a priority to deport felons above others. However, other illegals are deported daily. Deportations have been running at the highest levels ever. Felons first. I think that is a smart prioritization, don't you?

Illegals caught in fraud or crime of any kind are treated no better than U.S. citizens. If their crimes are felonies, they are deported, as well.
So you are unaware of the 1.8 million that Obama has given a stay of deportation for 2 years with work permits and without going thru congress to do so? There is no reason to priortize. All illegal immigrants need to be deported because they are all here illegally. We can do it but this administration refuses to.

Getting back to the 1.8 million how many do you suppose have committed the felony of using fake or stolen ID's just for starters? Yet this adminstration is going to give them a pass for that. Would an American be given a pass for the same crime? No, they wouldn't. Yet the claim is that they are treated no better or differently than an American citizen?

 
Old 08-23-2012, 01:26 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,468,516 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Interesting that the Huffington Post didn't back up its claims with a source or link isn't it? They are a leftist, illegal immigrant sympathizer site. I wouldn't buy anything they have to sell.

I did google and Pew disagrees with them. Just click on the links within the article. They also state that only 3% of illegal immigrants are picking crops. Here is a clip from the article backed up by Pew.

"About 3 percent of illegal immigrants were working in farming and related sectors, according to Pew, which was well below the percentage working in service occupations (33 percent), construction and extractive jobs (17 percent), production, installation and repair (16 percent) and transportation and moving (8 percent). A subsequent Pew study pegged the number working in farming and related sectors slightly higher, at 4 percent."

PolitiFact | Facebook post says "less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops, but 41 percent are on welfare"

I will repeat the questions in my post. What is your opinion of why they aren't applying for the temporary visas to come here and pick crops since you are the one claiming they aren't coming here illegally anymore because of tighter border controls? They would have no need to worry about that if they came the legal way.
Ah. I see now. You are trying to compare the wrong statistics to the issues.
I did not represent that 80% of illegals work in agriculture.
I represented that California agriculture relies on illegals for 80% of its field work.
Do you understand the difference?
Go back and read. Take your time and process it carefully. If you don't understand, ask a stranger on the street to read it for you and explain. Most people will be able to do that for you.

I am not claiming illegals aren't coming here illegally anymore. I am reporting that the numbers of illegals in this country is rapidly declining since the recession hit in 2006 - 7. The numbers are available for you to find and study from many sources. As to why more don't apply for legal visas -- again, the answers are plain as the nose on your face and readily available to anyone with half the brains that god gave a gnat.
 
Old 08-23-2012, 01:38 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,468,516 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
So you are unaware of the 1.8 million that Obama has given a stay of deportation for 2 years with work permits and without going thru congress to do so? There is no reason to priortize. All illegal immigrants need to be deported because they are all here illegally. We can do it but this administration refuses to.

Getting back to the 1.8 million how many do you suppose have committed the felony of using fake or stolen ID's just for starters? Yet this adminstration is going to give them a pass for that. Would an American be given a pass for the same crime? No, they wouldn't. Yet the claim is that they are treated no better or differently than an American citizen?
Firstly -- I am not unaware at all. The stay was granted because Obama has the discretionary power to do so. If you don't like that is fine with me. Lots of folks don't like it. You can all get together and change the powers granted to the President.

Further, if you wish to deport all illegals, find the funding to identify them and deport them. But before you do, be sure that the agricultural industries have substitutes. This country can't afford to lose the productivity. I am all in favor of you finding and implementing a solution for that portion of the labor market. Hopefully your new programs to find, detain, deport and replace will cost less than the cost of allowing the illegals to stay as they are.

I don't know how many have committed the felony of using false id. And neither do you. And who says they are going to get a pass for that? You have to catch them in the crime, detain, and prosecute -- and then incarcerate. Very expensive, time-consuming stuff. Money and effort better spent going after tax-evaders and Wall St. crimes. Tax-evaders and Wall St. investment banks can actually afford to pay for their crimes in much needed dollars to offset the costs.
 
Old 08-23-2012, 01:43 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Ah. I see now. You are trying to compare the wrong statistics to the issues.
I did not represent that 80% of illegals work in agriculture.
I represented that California agriculture relies on illegals for 80% of its field work.
Do you understand the difference?
Go back and read. Take your time and process it carefully. If you don't understand, ask a stranger on the street to read it for you and explain. Most people will be able to do that for you.

I am not claiming illegals aren't coming here illegally anymore. I am reporting that the numbers of illegals in this country is rapidly declining since the recession hit in 2006 - 7. The numbers are available for you to find and study from many sources. As to why more don't apply for legal visas -- again, the answers are plain as the nose on your face and readily available to anyone with half the brains that god gave a gnat.
Where are you keeping count?
What source you used is keeping count?


It amazes me they don't know how many illegals there are and where they are at, yet they know how many are entering.
 
Old 08-23-2012, 01:48 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Firstly -- I am not unaware at all. The stay was granted because Obama has the discretionary power to do so. If you don't like that is fine with me. Lots of folks don't like it. You can all get together and change the powers granted to the President.
.
Congress creates immigration laws not Obama.

Quote:
Further, if you wish to deport all illegals, find the funding to identify them and deport them. But before you do, be sure that the agricultural industries have substitutes. This country can't afford to lose the productivity. I am all in favor of you finding and implementing a solution for that portion of the labor market. Hopefully your new programs to find, detain, deport and replace will cost less than the cost of allowing the illegals to stay as they are
.

We can easily locate the the undoc bus & haul it to the border.

Quote:
I don't know how many have committed the felony of using false id. And neither do you. And who says they are going to get a pass for that? You have to catch them in the crime, detain, and prosecute -- and then incarcerate. Very expensive, time-consuming stuff. Money and effort better spent going after tax-evaders and Wall St. crimes. Tax-evaders and Wall St. investment banks can actually afford to pay for their crimes in much needed dollars to offset the costs
Yet you know how many are crossing.
 
Old 08-23-2012, 01:53 PM
 
2,654 posts, read 2,820,987 times
Reputation: 2115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
it only delays their deportation.
Sure...
 
Old 08-23-2012, 01:58 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,468,516 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Where are you keeping count?
What source you used is keeping count?


It amazes me they don't know how many illegals there are and where they are at, yet they know how many are entering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Congress creates immigration laws not Obama.

.

We can easily locate the the undoc bus & haul it to the border.



Yet you know how many are crossing.
As I have pointed out over and over: the answers to the factual realities of your concerns are readily available to anyone with half the brain god gave a gnat. The information is all over the internet through credible sources. If people prefer fiction to reality, I can't change that. It is up to you whether you want to live in fantasy or not.
 
Old 08-23-2012, 02:01 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
As I have pointed out over and over: the answers to the factual realities of your concerns are readily available to anyone with half the brain god gave a gnat. The information is all over the internet through credible sources. If people prefer fiction to reality, I can't change that. It is up to you whether you want to live in fantasy or not.
This is what I found.
 
Old 08-23-2012, 02:03 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Ah. I see now. You are trying to compare the wrong statistics to the issues.
I did not represent that 80% of illegals work in agriculture.
I represented that California agriculture relies on illegals for 80% of its field work.
Do you understand the difference?
Go back and read. Take your time and process it carefully. If you don't understand, ask a stranger on the street to read it for you and explain. Most people will be able to do that for you.

I am not claiming illegals aren't coming here illegally anymore. I am reporting that the numbers of illegals in this country is rapidly declining since the recession hit in 2006 - 7. The numbers are available for you to find and study from many sources. As to why more don't apply for legal visas -- again, the answers are plain as the nose on your face and readily available to anyone with half the brains that god gave a gnat.
I didn't say that you said that 80% of illegals are working in agriculture. You said that 80% of workers in the agricultural industry are illegal immigrants. Don't you understand the difference? I proved you wrong. There is no need to question my intelligence ethier. It was you that couldn't comprehend what I said.

You said that agriculture is suffering from a lack of workers and you said it was because of tighter border controls. Well yes, illegal immigrants just might fear that. However, why aren't they applying for the H-2A visas instead? That way they would have no fear of an immigration violation. No, the answer to that question is not as plain as the nose on my face and I do have a full brain.
 
Old 08-23-2012, 02:08 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Well, how will the lettuce get picked?
California agriculture relies 80% on undocumented labor.
You do know the value of the agriculture business to California and the nation, don't you?
You don't care about many billions of dollars benefit to California and America?
That's not very nice of you.
Your claim is wrong, from your HP link: an industry where 80 percent of the field workers are illegal immigrants. There is a big difference in what you claimed vs what your link states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
No. I surely don't think these deferred will do field work. I never said they would. And that is not the issue being discussed. Read my posts more carefully. I respond to others' comments about field work. And that said:
I don't have any question about how our lettuce is being picked. I did not bring up the "lettuce" example ... I responded to it as a generalization for produce field work ... which is, by and large, heavily dependent on immigrant labor as almost no Americans -- except those of direct Mexican descent - will do the work. The estimates of illegal field labor are 80%, not 3%, if that's what you are inferring.

Regardless of "unlimited visas for foreign crop pickers", that isn't how the industry has been functioning in reality now is it? If your observations are that produce will be picked and handled and packed by machine, please explain to us why produce is rotting in California's fields as we write. Hint: it is because of a lack of workers. If Americans will do the work, please explain why they aren't and there is a 15% unemployment rate in Fresno.
California Farm Labor Shortage 'Worst It's Been, Ever' - Yahoo! Finance


Yes. I lived near Fresno at one time.
It is because of a lack of workers in some cases, not all. If the H2A allows for the workers and the farmer failed to obtain what he needed, who's fault is it? If those here are failing to show up for the work, what does that imply? If a farmers crop insurance pays them for these rotting crops that haven't been picked, why are they complaining? .highnlite will tell you farmers don't hire field labor directly, they hire through agents/agencies that provide the labor to them. So how is it that these agents/agencies aren't providing the labor as needed? Even your own link makes this clear: "We have 100 fewer people this year," said Sergio Diaz, who provides workers under contract for growers. "We're having difficulty finding people to do this work." And if the "workforce is aging and starting to retire" and there are no replacements coming in, even from Mexico and Latin America, what then? Your link also claims they are having a hard time finding truck drivers. Here's the real kicker from your own link: The industry lost many workers to home construction during the housing boom, but those workers have not returned. And then this: Underwood realizes even if he doesn't have enough labor to pick his crop, Americans will still have food. "It'll just be grown in Mexico," he said. "Or China." While this may be correct to a degree, we will still have produce grown here on a smaller scale or different venue.

Now I know you are attempting to make an economic argument out of this, which I actually agree with, however, your talking points are where much of the disagreement comes in.

Do you really think Fresno has a population that is all legally there? Really?

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-23-2012 at 02:45 PM..
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