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Old 08-24-2012, 07:22 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Now this is getting funnier by the post ... read the difference carefully:
My post #32

Your critique:

for 80% of its field work

is not the same as
relies on 80% [of] illegal workers.
in which the [of] I inserted is inferred ... or even if it is not, the meaning is changed.

Look. Your profession sounds like an interesting line of work. You are probably someone I could find some things in common with to jaw about. But you are not dealing with language well here. And you have made assumptions based on misinterpretations. What I am pointing out to you are not cases of quibbling over English ... your misunderstandings change meanings.
the meaning of it has no effect. Its a non-sequitur. The point was that .highnlite said something totally different, I merely pointed him to your comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Now, I have done a variety of things to earn my way through life and support a large family over the years -- including plenty of physical labor. But the profession that I probably earned more at than all the others combined is writing ... journalism, research, marketing, creative ... all.
Well good for you, and la di da, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
I do dash things off here on the forum without nearly the care I would take if writing a piece for publication .... but, I am generally pretty damn clear. You need to stop and think about what you are reading and what you are writing ... what I wrote (above) and what you wrote (above) use a number of the same words ... in different orders and contexts change. Seriously. They are not the same.
Its a complete non-sequitur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Now then:

There is no CYA about it. It is not seasonal work in most of California.
I read how you like things linked for factual proof, I provided an actual report stating that 60% of field work in CA is seasonal. Sure, some of it is NOT seasonal, again that report states 20% with about 20% unsure if they are seasonal or year round workers, so I called it 20 - 40%. Its not hard to recognize that the majority of field workers are seasonal employees (seasonal work), whether there is year round work or not.

 
Old 08-24-2012, 08:27 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Illegals get drivers licenses all the time. They just buy them. Break one law, what is the big deal about breaking a few more? Theft, forgery, bribery, black market...

As for having to know English in order to drive....ha....you have obviously not been to Miami. Everything there is in Spanish.
You're right. I'm gonna say ALL illegal aliens driving here do like you said. Irish, Chinese, Russian, Polish, Mexican and so on.
 
Old 08-24-2012, 08:56 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,472,411 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
the meaning of it has no effect. Its a non-sequitur. The point was that .highnlite said something totally different, I merely pointed him to your comment.

Well good for you, and la di da, too.

Its a complete non-sequitur.

I read how you like things linked for factual proof, I provided an actual report stating that 60% of field work in CA is seasonal. Sure, some of it is NOT seasonal, again that report states 20% with about 20% unsure if they are seasonal or year round workers, so I called it 20 - 40%. Its not hard to recognize that the majority of field workers are seasonal employees (seasonal work), whether there is year round work or not.
Pretty funny. "The meaning of it has no effect". Meaning is meaningless, huh? You quote something (in this case as a referral to .highnlite) but its meaning is meaningless ... got it. There's no non sequitur. You were trying to make a point -- but you were using an example that you did not comprehend: therefore it was wrong.

You may interpret the use of the word "seasonal" in the report any way you wish ... you appear to be quite creative at interpretations of language. Field work in California isn't seasonal. There are many "seasonal" crops in California. But the constant rotations of various crops make field work available year round. This is why the workers root themselves full-time into their selected communities. There is simply no other reality.

I am done. You may have the last word and refute my meanings as meaningless.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 07:52 AM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 7,339,188 times
Reputation: 2622
Liquid, Nullgeo said the same thing I said. I am having a tough time figuring out how you and old trader screwed it up so badly. I find your attempts to explain or rationalize or excuse your statements even more confusing.

Seasonal does not necessarily mean sitting around in some off season. Pretty tough to be able to afford that on a field workers wages. As I stated, field workers live in a house in town, in our area, Santa Maria, or Guadalupe, or Oceano. Further north, Salinas, Gonzales, Soledad, King City, etc. They get up in the morning and drive their cars or trucks to work like real people. I am a bit annoyed right now because some are driving down my driveway to get to the field instead of using the ranch road at the west end.

They come in around 5:30 in the morning, and will still be out there working at 5 or 6 tonight. The first guy in has a nearly new GMC truck with three levels of headlamp/fog lamps all lit up when he comes in. He is obviously proud of his rig, he parks it away from everyone else, and he bought and fixed it up from money he made working in the fields. You can do that when you don't have kids.

Speaking of seasonal, watching the US Farm Report at 5:00 am this day, Midwest grain farmers are planting earlier, like April, the grain crops are growing faster and will likely all be harvested by the end of September. Their winter season will be 7 months of little to do except go to Florida, so I guess you can say those good patriotic Republican farmers are seasonal workers.

I was a seasonal for most of my working life. Fight wildfire in Nevada (and where ever I got sent) through fire season. Worked as a Faller out of Sierraville from end of fire season til the ski areas opened, then ski patrolled til the end of ski season.

Until I became overhead I worked seasonally all my life. And worked pretty much year round, maybe a month off in the spring if I was lucky.

A further quibble:

Quote:
I read how you like things linked for factual proof, I provided an actual report stating that 60% of field work in CA is seasonal.
When you take a report from one of them liberal ivory tower University educated pinheads, you are getting averages, which may not be applicable to any particular area, right? You got how averages work right?
 
Old 08-25-2012, 02:26 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Liquid, Nullgeo said the same thing I said. I am having a tough time figuring out how you and old trader screwed it up so badly. I find your attempts to explain or rationalize or excuse your statements even more confusing.
What null said and what you said in regards to oldglory was different. Null said 80% of field workers in CA are illegal, you said 20% of farm workers are illegal. But that's neither here nor there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Seasonal does not necessarily mean sitting around in some off season. Pretty tough to be able to afford that on a field workers wages. As I stated, field workers live in a house in town, in our area, Santa Maria, or Guadalupe, or Oceano. Further north, Salinas, Gonzales, Soledad, King City, etc. They get up in the morning and drive their cars or trucks to work like real people. I am a bit annoyed right now because some are driving down my driveway to get to the field instead of using the ranch road at the west end.
Seasonal is equivalent to your ski patrol job below. CA ag has jobs that are year round, there is no denying that, I even gave a link stating that 20% to maybe as much as 40% of field workers are year round workers. I also pointed out that 60% of the field workers are seasonal and said as much simply by pointing out that the bulk of labor is needed at harvest, for which you say there are 3 harvests in CA per year (maybe so in your area, not all of CA) keeping people working year round (which actually agrees with what I showed - we are in agreement). You also only point to how it works in your neck of the woods, limiting the discussion of CA field workers to workers in your community. This completely dismissed the northern central/coastal valleys of CA, which is where I work. up here the work is much more seasonal as the crops are much different, heavy rice production around Sacramento. Sure there are some up here who work year round (not as many as in the south), but up here the seasonal aspect is much greater. Overall in CA, the majority of the field workers are seasonal workers. Up here you see Asians in Strawberry fields and machinery everywhere else. The Napa Valley is mostly grapes, where you find a lot of seasonal workers. The discussion, again, was about CA, all of CA, not just your local community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
They come in around 5:30 in the morning, and will still be out there working at 5 or 6 tonight. The first guy in has a nearly new GMC truck with three levels of headlamp/fog lamps all lit up when he comes in. He is obviously proud of his rig, he parks it away from everyone else, and he bought and fixed it up from money he made working in the fields. You can do that when you don't have kids.
Your right, if one is single and with no bills they can put all their money into looking cool with all the fog lamps one desires. Not all are single men though, as you have eluded that they (probably families) buy, live, and become part of the community. Most single men in your scenario are migrant, they move where they can work, if a better job comes along then they are gone. So much for being part of the community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Speaking of seasonal, watching the US Farm Report at 5:00 am this day, Midwest grain farmers are planting earlier, like April, the grain crops are growing faster and will likely all be harvested by the end of September. Their winter season will be 7 months of little to do except go to Florida, so I guess you can say those good patriotic Republican farmers are seasonal workers.
For the bulk of the US, you probably could call it seasonal growing. I would also venture that they have a higher rate of illegals field workers, above the 80% national avg. CA's illegal field worker avg is closer to 60%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I was a seasonal for most of my working life. Fight wildfire in Nevada (and where ever I got sent) through fire season. Worked as a Faller out of Sierraville from end of fire season til the ski areas opened, then ski patrolled til the end of ski season.
As a citizen you have that ability to do so, illegals, in most cases once they leave an area to work elsewhere don't return back to their previous job (noted by previous link in earlier comments).

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Until I became overhead I worked seasonally all my life. And worked pretty much year round, maybe a month off in the spring if I was lucky.
Again, you may have worked year round, but your 3 jobs were seasonal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
When you take a report from one of them liberal ivory tower University educated pinheads, you are getting averages, which may not be applicable to any particular area, right? You got how averages work right?
Duh, those averages are for the State of CA, not your local community. You do understand that the discussion was about the State and not about your community, right?

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-25-2012 at 03:03 PM..
 
Old 08-25-2012, 05:16 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 7,339,188 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
you said 20% of farm workers are illegal. But
No i didn't, I said 20% of illegals are farm workers.
Quote:
Most single men in your scenario are migrant, they move where they can work, if a better job comes along then they are gone. So much for being part of the community.
No they don't, Migrant workers are a rare thing these days. When you have year round work, why would you up and leave?

Quote:
For the bulk of the US, you probably could call it seasonal growing. I would also venture that they have a higher rate of illegals field workers, above the 80% national avg. CA's illegal field worker avg is closer to 60%.
Holy smackers, you really don't have any idea what you are talking about. Grain work is mechanical, a family can farm a thousand acres of corn. What the heck would then want field workers for?

Quote:
As a citizen you have that ability to do so, illegals, in most cases once they leave an area to work elsewhere don't return back to their previous job (noted by previous link in earlier comments).
Again, I did not work seasonal, I worked year round, in different jobs. Farmworkers in California fresh produce do exactly that. the Grapes of Wrath was a long long time ago.

Quote:
Again, you may have worked year round, but your 3 jobs were seasonal.
I think you just shot the legs out from under your own argument.

Quote:
Duh, those averages are for the State of CA, not your local community. You do understand that the discussion was about the State and not about your community, right?
I would have left out the "duh" if I were you. Apparently my explanation went over your head.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 09:47 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
No i didn't, I said 20% of illegals are farm workers. No they don't, Migrant workers are a rare thing these days. When you have year round work, why would you up and leave?
Farmworkers cover the gambit of the ag industry, a field worker is part of the gambit, a specific portion of farm workers. Your 20% (2.4M of 12M - should be 3% of 10.8M=325K; PEW has since rounded the number up to 5% to =540K) is wrong also (there are only 2M farm workers in the USA - that's legal and illegal, to include the owners, the equipment operators, the truck drivers to include dairy - of which roughly 750K are field workers; of this 750K, 80% (600K) are thought to be illegal immigrants), but again that's beside the point. You're still stuck in what goes on in your own community. There is a lot more growing in CA then just where you live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Holy smackers, you really don't have any idea what you are talking about. Grain work is mechanical, a family can farm a thousand acres of corn. What the heck would then want field workers for?
But grapes aren't, Neither are fruit trees, Strawberries, etc. You keep limiting your argument, based on the provided example(s), and than to what is in your area. You see, up here we get one to maybe 2 crops a year of numerous different types of produce to include fruit, nut, and citrus trees, thus the total of "year round" workers is few compared to what you have down there. Up here, they are much more migrant than down there, which is why I brought up Fresno earlier, now I'll bring up Visalia with a higher unemployment rate, 17% for the small farming town. Here's one from a small farming town up here, Live Oak, has an unemployment rate of 17% also. Can you correlate the 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Again, I did not work seasonal, I worked year round, in different jobs. Farmworkers in California fresh produce do exactly that. the Grapes of Wrath was a long long time ago.
Damn dude, your JOBS were seasonal. You worked year round by doing seasonal jobs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I think you just shot the legs out from under your own argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I would have left out the "duh" if I were you. Apparently my explanation went over your head.
Apparently you failed to grasp the comprehension needed to understand what was stated. Get out of your little hole in CA and realize that there are other growers and farms in the state that aren't like what you have there.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-26-2012 at 09:58 AM..
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